Smith goes and collects the horses from the paddock (by himself) if I don’t want him to get them he still goes and gets them and ignores his recall...

Does anyone have advice how to get him to come back other than shouting or actually running after him and chasing him home??

(This is probably a really stupid question, but at this point VERY relevant) HOW DO I GET HIM TO COME OFF THE HORSE OR COW AND RETURN?? I didn't have this problem with the girls (probably because they have finished their level 5 obedience).

When I first got him he was a bit timid and was scared to come when called so we have been trying to build his confidence by rewarding when he comes and making a big fuss.

This works well and I usually have no problem getting him to come when called…. except when he thinks he is doing a good job he won't stop. If I get cranky with him he just cuts for it!! And won’t come back at all.

I don't want him to start not coming when called or suppress his working instinct.

He really tries to please, but is very thin skinned when he has done something wrong and he knows it is wrong.

His life is pretty cruizie at my place and there is no capital punishment (even when he chewed up my new akubra which cost me $170) tone of voice does the trick and there aren’t many rules … the main one is come when you are called even if you are having fun chasing the horses. The Koolies are so sensitive to moods Harley, Pop and Pix can tell by voice (and I am sure expression as well) if they have done something good or bad.

It is a big game with him and he loves going riding with the horses and has no fear of them. He would spend all day with them if he could. My arab pony plays with him and she chases him and he chases her which is not a good thing as he thinks all horses are fun to play with.

Any ideas on how to get my boy to understand would be appreciated!!!

time to add some rules I'm afraid when i don't wont the girls to work the sheep i use the leave it command and stay with me that means they have to walk beside me off lead and not run of. i start teaching the leave it command with their food i will put a really yummy tea down for them right at their feet and every time they go to eat i stop them and say leave it they soon get the idea and will sit back and wait when they do this i give them a command to eat click fingers say OK gum nut or what ever. when he has this down pat you can start applying it to other things like the horse's strange dogs, cats what ever you don't want him to chase or eat. when he listens to leave it he should come back to you when you call him in. Quin was a problem great recall in the back yard no recall out of it but that is changing now he comes back when called and if he is being silly when working the sheep and is to full on i tell him to leave it and when he stops i put in a drop and stay then i will then walk a short way to him but not all the way then call him to me with come to me command. it has been working great with Quin now i have to start it with Greyson as i am not even on the same plant as far as Greyson is concerned

Hmmm How is he with recall away from the horses? If you can get him to refocus on you and then you run away calling him in a very excited voice. Does he have a favourite toy at all, if he does hold that as you are running away from him? I don't know whether it will work but try it.

The leave command as recommended by Royalla is a good one. I say Leave It to my girls all the time, from horse poo, the chooks or if they get distracted by something (like the postie, poor postie). I say Leave It in my low voice (or as everyone says my librarian's voice) and when they do I usually say YES good girls.

Hopefully there will be more suggestions and you will have many different ways of trying. Good luck.

Smith's recall is good... not as good as the girls (they have level 5 dog obedience and Smith has just started) but I only have trouble when he thinks he is in trouble, then he just lurks out of reach..

Hi JackieH, try and use a happy excited voice when you call him back and reward him when he does come back whether it is with a toy or a treat. Running the other way does work with recall. I did this with Ceejay with a toy while someone else held her and eventually came to the point all I had to do was crouch down arms wide and call her and she literally bolted back to me.

Ceejay is a very easy dog to let know that she has done something wrong all I do is a growl, that is it. So she is a bit timid and hates to be in trouble with me (you should see the big suck up afterwards).

The dog will start thinking it is a wonderful thing to come back to you, so treats and a bit hearty pat with lots of praise. If you run the other way they think what is exciting over that way.

Hope this helps I know it can be frustrating.

All that does work and he does a beautiful recall to my happy call and squeaky toys etc... however, when he is out with the horses and it turns into a chase (which it doesn't always only when my arab pony is playing with him and she is some of the problem as well) after I have told him a very firm "NO" and "OUT" he gets concerned that I am upset with him and cuts for it. I know I must be firm with him (voice is all that is needed, he like all Koolies is very sensitive to voice commands)but would like some feedback how others do it in this situation.

Hi Jackie
I dont know if this helps or not but what we do at clubs with young dogs and dogs that nick of is to use a very thin line probably the lines that you use to put up your washing when you go camping and we put a clip on. Put that on and let them go when you call and they dont come you step on the lead and pull them in and you give them the treat. I know some people tell there dogs off for not coming when they are called and than they grab the rope and slowly pull them and give them a shake and than let them go and than call so the dogs know that if they dont come in mummy has an extended arm and she can get you. I dont really believe in telling them off so I just use the long lead pull them in and rewars. Dogs cant believe it when you this extendable arm and can still get you. So dogs work out no matter what mummys arm still gets you no matter what and you are rewarded
Hope this helps
cheers
Danni

Okay so it sounds like he gets into the "zone" as I call it, when he is out there with the horses. Izzy my Kelpie X does this when we are at a friends place and she smells, hares, wallabies and ducks. I watch her body language like a hawk and try to get her to heel with me if she slightly stiffens. Maybe if you do heel work with him amongst the horses with the lead, and when he gets distracted say watch me, when he looks at you praise him. I did this for months with easy until she got the gist. But I still have to catch her in time before she goes into the zone. If I do catch her before, it is "ah ah Here" then "Heel" and if she is still looking behind her "watch me". I don't use the "come" word only when we are at training.

I am not there 100% but she is better then when I first got her, see a wallaby poof no Izzy. I used to call and call, and when she came back gave her a big pat for coming back (over the hills and far away) thank goodness I can whistle.

Apart from the above I am out of ideas, hope I am not annoying you too much.

Hi JackieH

I find that if the reward history is strong enough, it's amazing what they will come away from. If you're concerned that rewarding the recall at that point will reinforce the chasing, well that's already been reinforced by the dog having had the pleasure of chasing the livestock, nothing done now can do anything about it. So I would recommend using your happy recall which obviously has a good reward history away from the horses rather than a reprimand and then rewarding when he comes.

Leslie Nelson has this great idea about teaching 2 types of recalls (and she has sighthounds including Afghans so she has experience of dogs that love to run and have no natural check-in behaviours, unlike Koolies). She teaches an everyday one with the normal cue and good rewards and an emergency recall with a different cue and the best rewards in the world, as far as the individual dog is concerned. You practice it a fair bit, but you save it for when you really need it. One of the interesting things about the behaviour (I think) is that, by its very nature, it is rarely the case that you have those amazing rewards to hand when you use it - but that won't make any difference to whether you get the response if it has been taught without the rewards being used as lures or bribes - so any time you use it you then need to 'top it up' by quickly reteaching it with those best imaginable rewards.

Another useful thing I learned from Delta is to backchain recalls, by initially giving the cue when the dog is sitting right in front of you, so that it associates the cue with that position, then teaching the dog to approach from a close distance to assume that position. To me that seems less likely to result in a dog that won't let itself be caught (although it seems from what you describe that it is purely fear that is creating that part of the behaviour, not lack of understanding).

Also, if you decide you need to reteach the whole come-when-called, it's a good idea to chose a new cue.

And (last thing) because behavior is in a constant state of flux, if rewards stop occurring at a high enough level, behaviour will deteriorate. I saw this with Wal's recall, which used to be particularly beautiful. He'd circle around me and check-in every few minutes (and often get treats for it) and if I called him he'd turn as fast as physically possible and belt back. But I rested on my laurels a bit and started rewarding at a lower rate and now it's ok, but not nearly as good as it was, and much less reliable away from good stuff.

All the best, Libby