Just an update, so no one can throw things at me.

Puppies are nearly weened, but Indi does like being a mum.

They love fish. but it does give them smelling breath.

But their fur is so soft and they are so energenic and bright it's worth it.

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TJ your puppies are georgous!!
I cannot wait till I can get a Tjukurpa puppy

They are soo very very cute. Lots of puppy cuddles!!!

What a bunch of SWEETIES!!! They are just soo bootiful!!!!
Does each puppy have a home to go to yet??

I'm in love with Gerema. I want I want I want. You can see I'm a blue merle nut. They are all absolutely gorgous. Have they got homes.
I am feeling much better and I'm off to do some training with the rat bag that has been a pain in the royal ....... since I havent been able to do anything with her. We have taken off to steal my used tissues dug holes to china thrown things in the toilet bowl (always have to check before using) and this is all because we are sooooooooooobored. puppies lovem to death
Danni

sounds like you are having fun at your house danni and yes i know how you feel i had to move my pot plants to a safer place but still Dance found them may they rest in peace lol. TJ your pups are sooooo cute i just can't choose who i like the most

Absolutely beautiful puppies and so healthy.

All puppies are sold.
Except the couple I am keeping to bring on and possibly sell as a starter later on.
Their new owners are all busting to have them home now.
So even more photos are requested.

Inda puppys! pretty! Who's their Dad?

Their dad is Sheringa Rex, very nice body and real nice work ethics.

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These pups are fourth generation on dads side and third on mums

In my constant Koolie internet stalking activities, I've come across pic's of Inda on your site and always admired her. I have a bit of a soft spot for roughish coats, and she has such lovely colouring. The Dad looks a cracker too. Well done on the pups

I must admit to liking the short coat because of the heat up here, but Harley's longer coat has thinned quite well to adapt to the change in climate. It is amazing how they adapt to their surroundings.

I have been a fan of Sheringa Rex (even though he is not red) and it is great to see some of his puppies ... cute little fluffy balls they are. Great choice of dad TJ.

I prefer the smooth or short coat myself but Indi has never had problems with her coat, and she gets filthy, all muddy wollowing in the mud of the dam, an hour later it drys and just falls off, her coat type never knots or matts.
If I have to have a coat longer than short I'm glad I have Indi.
I hope her children who have taken after her with their coats are as fortunate as her.
I have never groomed her or washed her and yet her coat is in excellent condition.
I have been told by German breeders of the Tiger that their coats are like this so maybe that's where she gets it from.

When you have both long and short coats in a litter do you notice a difference in their speed of development or behaviour? I love Smooth Collies (actually saw a lovely one yesterday - don't see them everyday) and have heard that in mixed litters they are up and about exploring earlier than the roughs and are usually more intense in their play etc.

I don't have too much trouble with Jacksy, except for the odd burr to pick out. His main prob is he has very sensitive skin (much finer and softer to touch than Alby), and he gets itchy from standard dog shampoos and gets heat rash in summer.

but he does bloody shed all year around, the bugger!

This is obviously a question for experienced breeders, but my dogs are full brothers 18 mths apart, and they were distinctly different in development as pups. Jacksy was still a real baby at 8 weeks even though he was the biggest in the litter, whereas Alby was running around raising hell by that time, quite independent, and solid as a little brick, and the smallest in the litter. Jacksy is rough coated, Alby short coated. I actually picked him because I saw him get crowded out of the food bowl by the other pups, and what he did was tunnel under them, grab the entire bowl in his mouth and take off with it! That's a survivor I thought.By six months however, Jacksy was an old man, whereas Alby was still carrying on like a brat. When Alby was loosing teeth, we'd give him an Aspirin. Eventually he'd come to you when he lost a tooth, and then head butt you until he got his Aspirin. He still loves medicine to this day! Jacksy, I never had a clue he was teething, except his chewing. He carried on as normal. Jacksy was blitzing the class in obedience at 12 or 14 weeks, Alby I didn't put into obedience because he picked up all the basics around the house. Knows all the obedience basics because I did by then.I stopped food treats for Jacksy in obedience as soon as the course was finished. Alby, I didn't train him with treats at all, just approval.

They are same same in that Koolie kind of way, but very different. Jacksy can be wilful because he has a more reflective intelligence. Alby is still a little rocket and leads with his chin every time. Bold as brass. Alby has been very quick to learn. It's a matter with him simply of "get it, got it, good". I am not anthropormorphing when I say, Jacksy, like a kid needs to know whybefore he'll do anything new. He really does seem to need to know it's absolutely necessary! It's a more complicated excercise with him. I know some trainers would say that it seems like a lot of screwing around, but because he is such a reliable dog, I encourage independence in him because he does have common sense and he simply learns better that way.

Alby has worked out a few tricks of his own to get solo affection from me. If I am patting Jacksy alone, Alby can hear it from the other room. He will come belting out and start barking and running toward the back gate, and getting Jacksy to come with him. When Jacksy is out the door, Alby doubles back and runs back to get under my legs for a smooch. Poor Jacksy knows its a ruse, but he can't help responding because what if it really is a robber, and he didn't get him because for this one time it wasn't a false alarm. Different types of intelligence. I don't know if it has anything to do with coat length at all, LOL, but that is my two bobs worth anyway.

Having said that, I'm interested in what the breeders have to say as well.

Yes the short coats are more active, they have discovered the whole house while the fluffies are happy to stay in the lounge, but only by a couple of days.

Ella was the first to work out how to get out of the lounge and I believe she will be a fuller coat.

Eerin is a short coat and is never far from me, if she hears my voice or footstep then she runs flat out to get to me.

Geremer is always checking out everything and will try to crawl up my chair to sleep in my arms on his back.

Barkarla is excitable and her tail goes flat out when you pick her up, she will roll over so you can rub her tummy.

Uwnna, Komo, Kalka are all out going and have learned the routine quickly, open the fridge and their in it, or on your feet waiting for a meal.

Dari is good at blocking you, no matter where you step he will run and get in front of you.

Arana is a real character the last to leave the nest and the wooliest, he likes to sleep, is the first to the plate and if you don't get it to him fast enough he will howl at your ankles until you give him something, no patience, already.

Dari tries to pick on him but he can hold his own and has been known to stir up the bunch when they fall asleep and he wants to still party on.

Did you know there's a suburb in Pine Rivers (outside Bris - guess it'll actually be in Moreton Bay Super-shire after 15 March :-( ) called Arana Hills?

So you don't notice a difference in the behaviour of your adult long and short coats?

i think i have fallen in love lol rex is a good looking dog and i love his eyes. TJ with your breeding experinse what would you put to my dance and mirra, as you know dance has a solid tri as her mother and mirra has both blue merles for perants just say that i would like to use quin over mirra do you think it would be safe his mother was a solid tri or would a more solid dog be better say like your dari he has only a little bit of merling on him or would i be better to go to a solid like i am with summa ???????

They are soooo georgeous TJ. Thanks for the puppy fix, been away for a week to Sydney (I just got home today) and have been missing my Koolie fix. I certainly found out how much I was missed by my two girls. Lots of licks and kisses and jumping around, they were sooo excited to see me.

I saw a blue merle koolie in the middle of Sydney, near the city centre. Looked very happy indeed.

I'm going to start a new thread on this topic! More genetics, more theories yay!

[quote] what would you put to my dance and mirra, as you know dance has a solid tri as her mother and mirra has both blue merles for perants just say that i would like to use quin over mirra do you think it would be safe his mother was a solid tri or would a more solid dog be better say like your dari he has only a little bit of merling on him or would i be better to go to a solid like i am with summa ???????[quote]

Expertise is not my forte, sorry
But if i was asked for my 2c worth, if you have a merle and you really want the most safest approach then select a solid.

Even though my Indi is very dark and has a very good coloured mouth, she still has pink at the back and down the throat and Rex god love him has nothing but good strong colour in his mouth, I still had a white deaf pup with a myopic eye to boot.

Even knowing both parent parentage couldn't guarrentee success, sometime you miss the bullet, if you breed merle to merle sometimes you don't.

All this litter were born with pink mouths, now at six weeks the solids have good strong black mouths, the blue tris have merled, Ella has a lot of pink and merle, Dari even though almost solid in colour still has a lot of pink in his mouth.

Now maybe this will change as they grow old, I have never recorded the fixing of the merle in the Koolies mouth before.

But it must have some bearing that the solids have all darkened up, I can't think that Dari's and Ella will darken much more.

I only checked all their mouths today, and they had no colour last week, so this has all happen in a week.
Very interesting.

So I guess it comes down to do you take the risk and breed merle to merle in the hopes you miss the bullet or use a solid.

That choice is yours.

I know that in September there is every chance that i will be puting my Blue to Mcginiskins Blue, both koolie are blue merle.
Why because I believe there is a balance you can reach, where you merle is at a genetic strength to inable a successful outcome.

I keep asking myself why would an intire generation of breeders only believe that a Koolie was a blue merle.

Could it be possible that without the aid of genetics to guide them, they were able to maintain a breeding program where they could successfully produce this favoured type of koolie.

Maybe they just accepted the white issue as part of the deal of obtaining excelent specimins,(I hope not)

But I am also hoping to do this with the guidence of genetics, I hope by September the guys in the lab will be able to tell me what the resulting litter would be.

If I was to put her to a solid I honestly believe that the litter would be all solid with a possible merle or two.

Why should I care about the colours? because the market will always favour the merle and even though breeders mostly breed for their own needs, they still require a healthy market for the off spring they are not retaining, or face culling, a terrible waste of good genes.

And maybe duscussing future breeding options before they are undertaken might reveil an otherwise undetected flaw in my theory.

I have a dark merle tri bitch Cloud who is a sable, not familar with her colour clasification, so we just class her as a tri merle.

She went to a solid male and out of nine pups she had two merles, 8 boys, 1 girl

Another of my bitches a traditional blue merle with full trim an a blue eye went to the same solid male, she had 7 pups, one solid coloured pup, 2 male and 5 girls.

This also raises another question could there be a link between the sex of the pups and strength of colour?

The result are not conclusive (I know I would have to reapeat it 250 times) but it does make me think, pretty much the same way our older more experienced breeders must have thought, so long ago.

And I can't help apply that thinking to my future options such as Blue and Blue in September.

Tj, by strength of colour do you mean more undiluted pigment or the proportion of merled pups?

One thing I think that complicates the merle breeding issue is that breeders so often get away with M- x M- and then search for reasons why it worked well (or didn't work out), and what they identify as the reasons may be unrelated to the real reasons - so it would be easy for there to be lots of superstitious beliefs about what is ok to do and what isn't.

thanks TJ i was thinking of putting a solid over them but finding a solid boy the right colour is the hard bit but i have lots of time for that

What is the right colour, Royalla?

Does the club have a *policy* on AI? That should be possible for breeders remote from the general Kooie community, shouldn't it?

For what it's worth, that's what I'd try to do, a lot easier, cheaper than getting more dogs, IMO, not that more dogs aren't nice, but you invest so much in a dog who might not work out, then you have to do it all again.

Tell me about it!!! To my knowledge there are no Koolies up this far except for the odd pet that has moved up here with their families. Pixie being MM would have to fly to Brisbane being the closest red solid male as I am unsure whether Smith is a true solid. AI would be of advantage. Cost of flying is not cheap.

yes some breeders have AI available but i am not fussed about one of my bitch's have an op and as for the colour of dog that i pick for mirra and dance it would have to be a solid black or a solid black tri. i have seen dogs from a red to black merle mix and i do not like the colours that can come from this, in a tri merle from this mix you can get a dog with a yucky rusty brown through it's gray merle patch's and it's tan points are also that yucky rusty brown colour instead of tan it's just my preference and as i said i have plenty of time(3-5 years) to find these girls a mate and it could be one of spice's sons by that time who knows