Now Summa's had her babies I can concentrate!

When I first got Paxy I admit I was a little disappointed she was not perfect - shallow I know. The vet confirmed the little eye genetic defect and also a heart murmur. OK the heart murmur may still rectify itself and subsequent visits were unable to confirm this due to her being a little uncooperative! However when she was desexed a few weeks ago (a little early as I got my dates mixed up) the vet confirmed she still has a heart murmur but at present a grade 1 or 1.5. She may never have a problem with the heart murmur. He did a check also of her eyes and confirmed the micropthalmia diagnosis and said her pupils did not dilate properly and she probably has little sight in her right eye.

During our CGC (Canine Good Citizen) training this week the local behaviouralist came to visit to give a talk we were allowed to ask questions.
Someone else asked about Paxy's behaviour and his reply somewhat tongue in cheek was she should be on Prozac! When someone else asked when she would settle he said "about 10" then added after a pause "years"! Although he did come and give her lots of cuddles and play with her and not any other dogs! She was playing with her kong while he stood and talked and he observed how gentle she was with her playing. His advice was lots of short bursts of training, walking and keeping her environment stimulated. When I mentioned the barking he said probably more the type of dog ie working dog plus her personality. So that was interesting!

Next day we managed to squeeze into the visiting opthamologist's schedule for a visit. Lucky I didn't have anything else on because we were there a little while in total waiting for drops to work etc. Basically he said right eye has irregular pupil which is dropped, some atrophy of the retina, pressure is good. Left eye pupil dropped. We put some drops in her eyes to dilate the pupils and he said her vision probably improves as this gives the pupil the opportunity to pass the whole image onto the retina as opposed to when the pupil is contracted and the image would be cut off. If I could draw it I could explain it better! He has given me some drops to give her on occasions when I want her vision to be better eg training at night - even though more pupil dilation the lights affect the pupils. So it will be interesting to see how she goes when I try it next Thursday night.

It was interesting to observe her behaviour when we got home. She was tired but she was very quiet and it was almost like "I can see and it all looks different". I wonder whether she was tired from all the processing her brain was doing. I also threw a soft foam ball for her and she actually managed to catch it with her mouth several times. This is something she has rarely done before. He said she may have trouble focussing close in so may bump into us a bit harder than normal - and this something she does do! The opthamologist was very interested in her, saying he rarely sees this condition and would be interested in hearing of her development and seeing her as an adult. He did mention that there is the possibility of neurological problems associated with this eye defect so I wonder if some her behaviour is associated with her vision.

Anyway I will do my best for her and try to be the best trainer I can for her so she can be the best she can be. She has taught me so much already I am better for it! If I had a dog that was easy to train what would I learn?! lol! She's our gorgeous girl and we love her to bits!

BTW her breeder has been told of her problems and I am satisfied with the response.

I am pleased to hear that you are finally getting answers to her problems and it may be a contributing factor with her behaviour. I think she is just super smart myself (well that is my opinion). Her quiet behaviour after the visit is that she probably could see more and was processing it. I am sure she is pleased that she is in the hands of someone like yourself who will give it their all with her training. I know I am impressed.

Is there any possibility that the eye and heart problem could be inherent.
If that is possibly would we be able to get copies of the paperwork for our records.

I don't know a lot about whether heart murmurs are inherent. They are something that pups can be born with and it closes itself during the first 8 weeks or so. Sometimes they don't. Cavaliers are much more prone to it afaik but I'm not sure why.

The opthamologist said "eye problems are more common with the blue merle gene and every care must be taken when breeding blue merles." Maybe she just drew the short straw of this litter.

Out of curiosity, who was the behaviourist?

Must be good to get some expert opinion about what is going on with her. When Wal saw the opthamologist she said something similar - I asked if she saw lots of merles and she said LOTS!

About Cavvies' heart problems, they have an extremely small founder gene pool, under the circumstances it would be strange if there wasn't some genetic problems (and the rate of occurance is reducing I think but has been extraordinarily high). With Paxie, we'd have to find other related dogs with the same problem before we could say it was inherited. I'm wondering whether it is possible that being MM, which affects how nerves form (the reason for it's impact on hearing), could effect the heart. I did a quick google search on the topic and didn't find anything. I did find several dogs that were merle and had a murmur, but no doubt I'd have found lots more if I searched for black dogs with a heart murmur.

Unfortunately I think there are only 2 cardiologists in Australia. One works around Brisbane (and is lovely and brilliant), the other I'm not sure, she's much more recently qualified.

Robert Stabler was the behaviourist. He seems a really nice guy with a good sense of humour!

The opthamologist was very good and observed Paxy for several minutes before touching her. He watched her ears and noted that they were working independently. At this moment I'm not sure I'll test her hearing but will continue to observe how she reacts to things, she doesn't mind whipper snippers, trucks, dozers but I did do quite a bit of socialisation with that sort of thing. I did forget to use the mixmaster with her though so she doesn't like that and for some reason she doesn't like brooms much either, I think she likes to chase them!

The vet said it is quite possible that the heart murmur may never get worse. But to watch her weight as being overweight will cause more stress on her heart. She was 14.8kg the other day!!

The opthamologist has also given me a means to test her vision invovling a stocking and one hole, to be tried with each eye individually! Have yet to try it out on her!

These are her eyes dilated with drops with a flash (accidental!)
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Without flash
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Pupils normally like this
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The drops make a huge difference don't they. Just a suggestion maybe you should start writing down her different behaviours with the drops and without it may assist you with training and different things that you do with her. Just an idea. I found writing things down helps you process and evaluate things when you go back to the notes.

We've seen our IM specialist today and while I was there I asked if she knew of heart murmurs related to being MM. She didn't but she printed out some stuff from a veterinary internet list for me about it. Was really interesting to read it and realise that we, as a community with a special interest in the issues of breeding merles, know a lot more about it than some of the vets on the list... guess they can't know about everything...

But there is this one line 'the crossing of 2 merles will chance a homozygous recessive condition involving blindness, heart defects and other issues.' And nothing more. There is also this 'will have a high rate of fetal loss' (from context it is clarified that she means prior to birth). There is also another bit where someone asks about a MM who is blind whether he is likely to have other systemic defects and an eye specialist replies, probably not.

About the possibility of fetal loss, I've had that in the back of my mind for a while as possible, considering that there doesn't seem to be the expected average 1/4 white pups from Mm x Mm breedings (although I acknowledge the reality that many white pups are culled and nobody except the breeder knows they were ever born). (edit: on further searching, this page suggests a 50% fetal loss rate for MMs, although they are talking about Danes and in that breed there is known to be a high rate of fetal loss due to an interaction of the harlequin or merle gene and another white patterning gene... http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:WBh8O...t=clnk&cd=7 )

(Another edit: Natalie thought that an in utero virus was a possible cause for a heart murmur, so finding other pups in Paxy's litter with a similar condition wouldn't necessarily indicate that it was inherited as they might all have had the same thing.)

That's an interesting concept about an in utero virus causing heart murmurs.

I did mention to the opthamologist that she had a heart murmur as well but he didn't seem to make anything of it at the time just she probably wasn't very lucky! Maybe if I go back later he may have more info.

It must be hard for vets to keep up with everything unless they specialise, but it is a good vet that realises that maybe someone else has more insight into something than themselves! Same goes for doctors!

Very true. The trick is in recognising that they don't know and knowing where to go to find out. And it must get frustrating dealing with ppl who think they know more about something than the vet does, but they don't and have crazy ideas.

Amber had the same thing with her left eye but it was all so turning in as she got older


Amber had the same thing with her left eye but it was all so turning in as she got older
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Paxy appears to have good muscle control over the eye at the moment until she tries to focus closely and then you can see the eye start to tire. You can see the same thing in my son's eyes too - he has different focal lengths in each eye, one eye tires very easily when concentrating on following an object up close and starts to tremble. The eye specialist said that as she grows she may get a problem where the eyelid droops and the eyelid turns under. He has given me the name of some drops (available at a chemist) if this happens to help lubricate her eye.

Tried to get a drop in her eye tonight before class but she was a little bugger and whilst I thought I had put a drop in there seemed to be little or no effect to her pupil. She was a bit of maniac as usual but she hasn't been walked outside since Sunday as it has been so wet. Although she did play in the mud - I have some pics to post! Have been doing some training inside but it's been a busy week for me too.

I am very proud of her though, she excels at stay. I have rarely trained her in stay as yet except when giving her her dinner and she must wait for the OK. She will be in a sit or drop position and let me walk to the end of the lead and I wait about 10 secs before I return to her. I can do this both to the side and to the front with her. She is not fazed at all. The trainers are amazed as she is such a livewire, eating and tugging her lead all the time and here she goes excelling at a stay while the other dogs still struggle! Hee hee - there is hope yet!

Amber is a red merle by the look of it, was she blue or brown eyed? It would be interesting to know if the blue eye numb ers are similar in the red as the blue merle.