Okay not sure whether anyone elses dogs have developed this or not. Had a quick look through google really could not find anything. I was watching Ceejay and Izzy play this morning. Ceejay has what I call a silent bark and TJ said her dogs do this, so obviously it must be an inherited behaviour. Well this morning Izzy started doing it back to Ceejay, I have never seen her do this before but they were having a play all done in mute for about 15 minutes.

There are other examples where Izzy has copied Ceejay with other behaviours, crawling for example. Just odds and ends. Also they tend to sleep in the exact same position, they are almost like siblings in similar ages. And lately it is becoming more apparant. Izzy has learnt the head tilt from Ceejay, but Ceejay has not learnt any behaviours from Izzy. Izzy does this magnificent howl when I or OH get home and when she wakes up but Ceejay has yet to do it. Ceejay is the older of the pair by about a year.

I have been watching other pairings of dogs, but they don't seem to have the bond that my two have. Is it because Ceejay is a koolie do they have a way about them, develop strong bonds with other animals or is it Izzy lacking a stable influence before she was 4 months and now that she has, hence developing a stong bond with Ceejay. They are yet to have a bicker, Izzy is approaching 18 months and Ceejay three.

I know there are some learned scholars on the forum so all opinions accepted.

There have been cases that I have seen where a younger dog will bond to the older and try to imulate/copy the older.

I have never thought of the silent barking as an inherant action, because not all my Koolies do it and not all those who do it are directly related, but I guess it's possible.

I wish ours would learn the silent bark, particularly at 2.00am when they regularly start and I am awake again!
For all the stories you hear of people introducing a second dog to the family you must have the right end of the average....so many stories you hear are so difficult, there have to be some good successes out there.
I would say your dogs are both medium level pack members, not driven to be in charge or leaders but happy to share and take direction from you as the leader. Obviously well brought up and adjusted.

Hi Ceejay
Actually I find my Gabby copies other dogs when she plays. If they growl she growls, if they snap she snaps,if they started yipping at her she yips back. Whatever the other dog does she copies it. I just was talking to my mum about it as I thought it was very odd as none of my other dogs did that
Danni

I have had two dogs before and they certainly did not form a bond like these two of mine. They remind me of a pair of close siblings, but without the niggling arguments. It makes sense that they are medium level pack members, I know Ceejay is the dominant of the pair as she reprimands Izzy if she gets too rough in play, all that involves is Ceejay laying her head over Izzy and doing a low growl and Izzy just goes oops. Doesn't happen too often. I am just amazed that being two girls and all the horror stories I have heard from friends and strangers about being wary of having two females together.

Dannimillo it is interesting that you say that Gabby copies other dogs, as Ceejay does that too when she is out and about. And if another dog isn't too sure on her she just works on the dog until they do. She is astute at reading other dogs. Do you think that is the same with Gabby, that she has a good grasp of what other dogs are thinking?

I guess I am just lucky to have two dogs that enjoy each other and me.

Dont know Ceejay!
I think I just have a verrrrrry smart coolie in Gabby who works things out. She actually puts Xena to shame. Another thing that she does a dog tells her off and instead of backing away or submitting she washes their teeth. The more they growl the more she has to wash their teeth which includes those back ones. It just totally confuses the dog that is telling them off.
I dont have problems with my bitches they all know there places. I had 4 bitches all at once. One comes for the visit when I train but there is always 3. Gabby think Inka is one big sister. Xena seems to be mum and good old Milo you just ignored her because she is a grumble bum and didnt want to be disturbed. Milo never said anything she just turned her head away. I did have a few problems but I told Gabby off but she did try and dominated her as Milo never told her off like the other two did so she thought she had power but when she realized who had to deal with the boss she stopped it.
Funny thing a couple of weeks ago Gabby went up to Milo put her feet on her feet and put her head under Milos head. Poor Milo was looking at me as to say get rid off her. Dont know if that was Gabby's way of saying goodbye or not as she has never done that before and hasnt done it since. Overall they all get along great but poor Inka she wont leave her alone when she goes to grandmas place you actually have to give them time out LOL but at home she has learnt to play by herself and with Xena.
I think Gabby's problem is that she is toooooooooo smart LOL
Danni

Dogs will mimic and observe each other. With agility I believe (not having done it!) a dog that is somewhat timid of tunnels for example is allowed to watch another dog doing it in the hope it may help alleviate any apprehension. Dogs can also learn from watching people (ever stuck your head in a crate to encourage a dog to get in?lol). A dog that is deemed to be higher in pack order exhibiting certain behaviours may influence another dog's behaviour.

I don't know whether there have been many studies of this sort of behaviour I could find nothing in my texts, just in my notes. I haven't googled either.

One instance I have seen of this being used was on a TV show where an assistance dog was used as a "trainer" for the rest of the class, showing how to turn off a light switch. I think the other dogs were going to be trained by a human as well but it was believed having another dog show them a behaviour first encouraged them to do the behaviour themselves.

You are very lucky Ceejay to have two dogs that have formed such a close bond. I think it relates to the dogs having stable personalities and environment and obviously a good human influence!

OMG, Ceejay does exactly the same thing, my friend has a very dominant Rottweiler, she is the boss but not in a nasty way. Ceejay constantly turns herself inside out and washes her teeth. All the while Lexie does this half hearted growl. She has done it with other dogs too. Must be some sort of puppy cue, showing the dominant dog "look I am just a puppy I am not intimidating at all".

Good to know Bluedog about them copying each other with learning new things, it may make agility easier to do with Izzy. Ceejay is bold, Izzy a bit timid at new things. When my teacher finally gets on her feet, will try it out, especially the tunnel one.

That is how I train my competition dogs. I think it helps as it doesnt take me long to train my competition dogs.My puppy always goes to training and competitions and I swear she takes it all in as she watches Xena. Gabby is learning the seekback and she has seen Inka and Xena running back to the start peg and that is exactly what Gabby does. I havent put the article to far away from the start peg though. She picks up her dumbbell that was through watching and she saw them picking it up and racing back sitting in front getting a treat. Teaching her the sendaways and she is off doing that as she has seen the girls tearing of there and sitting and getting a tid bit. People that I know and have single dogs or dogs not very far in their training have had lots of problems as the dogs dont seem to understand where the dogs that have been watching just seems to be easier
Danni

i used tobby when he was a pup to show/lead gypsy through the agility tunnels poor gypsy was scared of them and would not go into them not even when i was inside one she would just cry and jump around outside of the tunnel then i came up with the idea to stir gypsy and tobby up get them playing so that gypsy was not taking any notice of were she was going and i sent tobby through at high speed by the time gypsy relized were she was the way out was closer then the way she came in so that was the fastest exit we did this a few times over a couple of mths and then gyps was fine with the tunnels

Ok this is a bit spooky. I decided to sit down and do some of my next assignment and I turn over the page and there's a question about mimicry/imitation!! Now after a bit more exploration have found the BIG word for this is allelomimetism or behaviour is described as allelomimetic! Still very little info online and in texts but generally regarded as one method of learning for young pups eg food choices like grass. So if anyone comes up with anymore info let me know!!! lol

I'll try and find it, there was a paper published fairly recently about some Daschies I think which turned around opinion about learning from mimicing. Prior to that appearances of mimicry was usually interpreted as social or environmental facilitation (where the same context caused different dogs to display similar behaviour). And my view is that most apparent cases still are.

ETA I did just find a paper on pups learning about scenting work from their mothers, haven't found the Daschie paper though.

For centuries farmers have used the old trusted working dog to train the up and coming young ones.
Only trouble with this method was the young ones also learned the old dogs bad behaviour as well.
But their still doing it.

Alby learned how to bitch slap from Jacksy, who slapped him one too many times one day, ha ha, and got a wallop back. Gawd knows where Jacksy picked it up. Now they slap each other around with their paws all the time, particularly when the competition is on for who gets closest to me. Whateva! Better than snarling at, and biting each other.