My lovely Perry (5.5 years) has been diagnosed after xrays with degenerative changes in her neck and early arthritis in her left shoulder. She is in the middle of 4 cartrophan injections and is on joint guard and fish oil capsules and is eating oily fish 3 times a week. She is on a diet. Is there anything else I can do to improve her mobility and stop her limping? I hate to see my lively ball obsessed girl in this state.

So very sorry to hear about Perry. Arthritis is the pits. The only thing I can recommend further is homeopathic remedies. Go to this website Heal with Ease and have a look through it. Type in arthritis in the search area and it will come up about it. Eric and Cathy Tighe are very helpful too. Hope this helps, it sounds like you are doing everything possible to help with Perry.

I have the beginners kit and it is fantastic (have used it numerous times), will be getting the extension kit soon too.

Wal went to a physio for his arthritis when we were doing agility. He gave me good exercises for him, advised me on exercises and activities we shouldn't do, and gave him a nice massage (Wal doesn't actually like massage that much, but I think it helped him).

Our dog Otto is 15 1/2 and now has arthritis too (after a couple of knee reconstrutions). The only other thing we use that you haven't listed is SeaFlex.
Because Otto has had arthritis for a number of years he is also now on Metacam (which I think works like nurofen does for humans). Anyway since he has been on the Metacam and on a strict diet he has been after walk a lot more and is now much fitter. He gets most upset if he is left at home when Molly (our 2 year old) has her walks.
I'd ask your vet about the physio as I remember this helped a lot when recovering from knee reconstructions.
Also check if there is a dog swimming pool near you if you don't have access to a swimming area for your dog.

We found the cartrophen was a great help with our 16 yo and was effective long enough until glucosamine kicked in. You can buy it in powder form in the healthfood shops and is cheaper than buying Sasha's blend which it is an ingredient of. This got her active again after knee reconstruction to the point she was wanting to work again. It's not bad for people either.

I haven't been using it specifically for this, but the SAMe that Wal takes for his liver disease is also good for arthritis (I just read on the packet, can't believe I hadn't noticed it before). It is used by the body to produce glucosamine and chondroitin. The vet supplied SAMe is seriously expensive (I was paying over $5 a tablet!) and most vets don't stock it, but I get Moodlift online for about $1.60 a tab. Supply through pharmacies is pretty unreliable and more expensive than that (about $50/20 tabs).

It's considered very safe, but I guess it'd still be wise to talk to a vet first, in case there are any interactions (though that never seemed to be issue for Wal and he has been on so much medication).

So sorry to hear about Perry. 5.5 is young for a dog to develop arthritis although if it's possibly related to past injuries it may have brought it on early. Higher humidity (in some cases) will somehow affect arthritis, making it more painful - although that's more anecdotal than scientific I believe!

I buy 1kg of Glucosamine with MSM & Chondroitin powder at the health food shop because it's cheaper than the vet, I share it with the dogs. I checked with the vet first to be sure it was ok for them to use it & how much, the dogs get 1/2tsp ea twice a day. JC is still gong well, she got kicked & trodden on a few times working the cows, don't know if the Glucosamine's helping but it's worth keeping it up I guess. I hope you find something for Perry it's so sad that such a young active dog has arthritis.

High humidity certainly does increase pain from arthritis, I can testify to that! I have taken glucosamine myself for several years and my joints are a lot stronger, I used to have trouble if I even stubbed my toe with my knee thinking about popping out a couple of times have fallen and taken many weeks for everything to settle down where as now (last week to be exact) when I take a nosedive I have some soreness but the joint itself is still stable (sounds like I'm a drunk, but running around over a lot of unever ground feeding out hay and pellets to over 50 calves so not always seeing lumps & holes and tree roots...and the odd dog).

My little 6 year old Tibetan Spaniel has completed a cartrophan course about a month ago, and his mobility has improved immensly

He is even putting on a bit of weight now which he never did before.

My Quinn has arthritis in one hip, and for him, I use Glucosamine every day, Cartrophen whenever he gets stiffer, (every 6 to 9 months)and Metacam if he hurts himself somehow - he's a bit of an idjit sometimes and hoons along and twists his leg turning too fast.

Mum also uses homeopathics on him, and believe it or not they do help. I don't know what she gives him, or what doses, so when I feed him I don't give them. Recently I fed him for 4 days, and he came up sore. The only medication I didn't give him was the homeopathics.

He has been on this regemin for about three or four years now, and is holding stable. He will always be lame, and I mustn't jump him anymore or play ball, as that involves sharp turns and jarring movements as they try to catch the ball. I wouldn't reccomend any ball games for a dog with arthritis :-(
Swimming is good, if you can throw the ball into water, they don't jar themselves getting it.

Thanks for all your suggestions - sadly the dog swimming pool near here has just been closed down and there is nowhere I feel confident to take her that is snake free. Canberra is very dry and not humid. My next door neighbour is a people homeopath so I will see what she recommends. We are having weekly home visits from the dog physio but at $140 a go I am not sure how long I can keep this up without having to go back to work.

Perry had her last cartrophen injection on Wednesday. She wanted to get her message about the ball through to the vet so she took it with her and tossed it to the vet who got the message that balls are important. She said Perry could play for 5 minutes 3 times a day and see how things went. We went home and played for 5 minutes and she was OK. Next morning did about 3 minutes and she started limping so it is back to rest. Waiting for an appointment with the homeopathic vet around the corner to see if she can offer something else or if acupuncture could help.

5 mins continuous seems like a long time for a dog to chase a ball, to me. With Wal my general rule has always been 3 throws at the most at a time.

I guess the physio and vet have given you info on how to throw the toy so that retrieving is as low impact as possible?

yes they did but at the moment she is back to short walks on lead - a real problem since we live on a steep hill so we have to drive to somewhere flat in order to go for a short walk. It has also been 33 the last week and neither of us likes the heat so we have been hiding inside and pottering around the garden after dark.

I have to drive out to go for a walk too, but because we have loopy barky dogs who stress Wal out when we walk past their places. It's a pain.

We have an appointment with the alternative vet who does acupuncture and homeopathy on Saturday afternoon so fingers crossed her treatment will work.

Let us know how you go. My poodle had acupuncture, hardest part was keeping still whilst needle was in (I've also had it myself). It always interesting to hear how different people have used different treatments and what works for them.

Yes I would also be interested to hear how it goes too.

I will report back. I also have a recommendation for a chiropractor who will be my next stop if this does not work.

Well we went to see the alternative vet and she thinks a combination of acupuncture, chinese herbs and homeopathic drops may do the trick. Perry had her first acupuncture treatment yesterday - she was not impressed - but she does seem to be looser and more flexible today. We have to go back in two weeks.

Good news.

How long do they leave the needles in for? Can't imagine Wal dealing with that at all, lol. Even when he lies down, he wriggles. Does the dog have to stay 'totally' still or only 'moderately' still?

I think my poodle had needles in for about 10mins. Had one in his right back foot so couldn't lie down or really sit. So was just fussed over by me until vet returned. When I've had acupuncture needles in for 10 to 20 mins, it is actually very relaxing, doesn't hurt and you can feel a tingling which is not unpleasant at all.

Perry's needles were in for about 15 minutes - they aim for 20 - she was going alright until I ran out of cheese - I will take a bigger bag next time. They just need to stay still enough for the needles not to come out. The vet thinks they work in as little as 5 minutes but 20 minutes gives longer lasting results.

She is not objecting to the homeopathic drops which taste quite sweet but she is not so keen on the Chinese herbs - I have had to mix them into some yoghurt and garlic and she still is not keen.

Pleased to hear that she was a more flexible after the acupuncture. Maybe something fishy with the chinese herbs (just a suggestion you don't have to try it). I swear by my homeopathic kit. Do you know what is in the Chinese herbs at all?

Was it in the Sunday Mail last week (somewhere, maybe not there) that Chinese herbs work on the principle that the worse it tastes, the better it must be for you, lol. Which would make it difficult to convince a dog to take them, they don't get the pain for benefit concept.

At one point I was trying to give Wal a liquid (so I could get the dosage right, tabs were too imprecise) Vit B - can you imagine (even I can't swallow it). I wasted so much food, because he wouldn't touch anything with even a drop of it in it.

"A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" a la Mary Poppins!! When I was little Mum used to mix Disprin and chocolate sauce together to get me to take it for ear infections - was still revolting.
I guess dog's sense of smell is so good they can detect any trace of stuff, that's probably where Ceejay's fishy stuff might be handy, if it smells enough it might disguise the herbs! My poodle used to see the syringe to squirt stuff into his mouth and he'd just look very resigned, at least he was little enough to hold with one hand!

I have not started the Chinese herbs yet - I wantto see how long the effects of the acupuncture alst - I plan on mixing them with a spoonful of canned red salmon - one of Perry's favourite things. It is Wednesday morning and she still seems to be OK - the vet did not think it would last this long. I would have taken her to the dog club to play this morning but I have to pick up a rescue and take him to the airport so that will have to wait.

Perry's first acupuncture session showed improvements for about a week, then we tried the homeopathic drops and chinese herbs, with some effect but not as much. Today she very reluctantly went for another session - the vet thinks she may have tension headaches. We are carrying on with the herbs. We are off to sheepdog school at Binalong next Saturday so I hope she will be OK for that.

Perry had her second acupuncture treatment on Saturday and I do think it is helping. She really did not enjoy it, had two goes at the vet and ended up muzzled which she hates because it is so undignified. She came home and slept all afternoon but Sunday and Monday she played with her ball in the garden quite a lot - I am keeping my fingers crossed she will be fine for sheepdog school at Binalong on Saturday.

I have a friend in S.A. that has had brilliant results with acupuncture on her Tibetan Spaniel.

That is good to know - the vet who does the acupuncture wants me to use an animal communicator to find out if anything is bothering Perry - has anyone ever done this?

No, is it anything like a psychic for people? Find a bit more about it or the person before you do anything though. Depends on what you believe I guess.

The magazine Dog's Life uses an animal communicator in quite a few of their stories of dogs with problems. I think this is a bit of a grey area really, like all psychic things, there are good, bad and sometimes it depends how much you want to believe. But you never know do you, they may have some other insight to offer???

I've not looked into it in any detail, but what I have heard/read has not sounded like dogs I know - sounded like the dogs were speaking with heavily anthropomorphised voices. And expressed concern about things it seems unlikely to me that dogs actually care about, based on observable behaviour. I think a communicator might point out things that they are picking up from body language, or the kinds of things that dogs usually like or care about, but beyond that I'm very sceptical, personally. I'll be really interested in your experiences of it though, SD, if you go ahead with it.

I will probably go ahead because I do want to stay on good terms with this vet who is very convenient to home and is the only one around here to offer acupuncture. I have to come up with a list of questions to ask Perry - any suggestions?

Perry had a good day at sheepdog school yesterday but today she is sore and limping. Several other Koolie owners at the school suggested going to a chiropractor so that may be our next step.

Have not arranged the animal communicator yet - still working on the questions.

I have sent the questions to the animal communicator (who is based in Canada but was the one recommended by the vet). She expects to be able to report back to me before Christmas so I will let you all know what she says.

Will be interesting to see what the reply is. What sort of questions did you ask? Just being a sticky beak. lol.

1. Is Perry happy living with me?
2. Does Perry understand that she is very much loved and will be safe with me forever?
3. Is there anything worrying or stressing her or is she concerned because I am stressed?
4. Is there anything she would like to change?
5. Is there anything from her life before coming to live with me that she would like me to know?
6. Why does not she get on with any other dogs?
7. Why does not she like her stomach being touched or being brushed?
8. Does she mind that I rescue Koolies?
9. What would it take to stop her jumping on people?
10. What would it take to stop her barking in the car?
11. Does she understand why we don’t go to the dog club now or play ball as much and that if her shoulder gets better we can again?
12. Where is she in pain and what makes it worse?

It would make it so much easier if they could talk. Very interesting questions and it makes me wonder what would I ask my two. Real be really interested to hear the reply back. Has Perry always dreaded having the tummy touched?

That look's like a good selection of questions. It's not like have a conversation where one question can lead to another, you've had to specifically direct a question. I probably would have been stuck after three questions, although barking would definitely be up there!!

She has been with me since she was 13 months old and has always run away if I get the brush out - anyone who dares to touch her stomach is likely to get a warning nip. She is not a bad barker except in the car when we are going somewhere she wants to go - such as the dog club or sheepdog school and then she rarely stops on the way there but never utters a sound on the way home.

Yes sometimes with rescues or dogs that come to us later in life and they have these little quirks in them. Izzy does too have her quirks. Will keep looking in your post to see what the replies will be, it has me intrigued.

Ceejay also does the bark when we turn into the looooong stretch of road that leads to the training grounds or when she can smell the beach. Excitement barking is what I call it.

The reading has arrived. I can certainly identify with quite a bit of it so will pass it on to the alternative vet and see where she wants to go from here - we went for acupuncture yesterday and Perry was so uptight she would not let her touch her so we just came away with some more homeopathic medicine:

Perry Reading Dec. 26, 2008

The following is my direct communication with Perry. Please keep in mind that this is her perception of how she views her life. Animals communicate via telepathy so they are often aware of things and people they have never seen. Your open mind will ensure you fully receive the messages she has for you.

~Perry says she is very excited to be with you. She says many good things have happened since she has been with you. She says life has been grand!

~She says she has been with you before..once when you were a little girl. She says she was your lone companion, you were best friends. She says she has returned to be with you. She hopes you realize the connection. She says the last time she was with you she was taken away from you and you were very sad. She says she is so sorry you were hurt by this and now she feels she needs to protect you.

~She does show sharp pain that radiates from the inside of the shoulder down and on the side of the lower leg.

~She speaks of muscle knots in her neck. She feels massage will help.

~It feels as though she has the same type of pain in the back left leg but just in mild form.

~She feels all of this is connected to muscle degeneration.

~Perry says solid pressure applied to the shoulder helps to lesson the discomfort.

~She says she realizes she has no off switch sometimes and apologizes for this. She says it is her personality and she can't help it. She say she also holds /has a lot of determination.

~She speaks of things stored in glass jars on a counter. She wonders if she can see them/have some and if you can explain what they are?

~She talks about living outside and being badly bitten all over by bugs to the point where she physically felt ill.

~She speaks of an older grey /white haired woman. She says this woman holds a lot of knowledge and give wonderful life advice. Perry sends her love. She speaks of a man in uniform (solider?) connected to this woman. Perry says she has a lot of heartache stored deep in her heart over this man.

~She talks about having light brown crunchy biscuits /treats that she really likes. She says they taste home made and have a lot of flavor.

~She says she loves the colour red and red toys make her super excited!

~She sends you love and says she is so grateful for you. She says she tries to kiss you all the time to show her love but you don't seem to like it and you nudge her away.

~She says her stomach is sensitive and she talks about the skin being thin so everything is felt intensified. She is not sure what will help this.

~She shows she has wandered loose /on her own for several days in her past. She says she survived on garbage and scraps and bits she found on the streets.

~She talks about the information on her tag needing to be changed but I do not get his message fully.

~She says she enjoys green apples as a treat.

~Perry feels it is her job to protect you and she takes this seriously.

~She says you need to be careful with your lower back and hips. She says your bones are deterioration and you need t otake a supplement to help this as well as do physical exercise like brisk walking.

~She talks about fatty deposits around her hind end. She says she needs a fat reduced diet.

~She asks for carrots to eat.

~She says playing makes her feel so alive, she loves this feeling.

~She says she feels she has a great sense of smell and this ability is not being fully utilized.

~She says she gets over heated easily and feels this is hormone related. She feels she has a mild dysfunction of her thyroid.

~She says she loves human touch and if she could ask for only one thing it would be more touch.

~She feels you are planning on going on a trip and she would prefer you stay home but understands.

~She says you make a funny noise when you want her to come and she is outside. She says the sound makes her laugh. She says she has no idea why you make this noise but it does get her attention.

~I do not get any sensation of headaches, just a mild sinus pain on the left side.

~She says you often have a chocolate like sweet smell about you and it smells good.

~She talks about a black dog that is pushy and thinks they are the boss. Perry says this dog works you and the others to get what they want. Perry is not impressed by /with this.

~Perry says she wishes it was just the two of you but says she will take you whatever way she can have you.

Regarding the fear at night etc. She says she hears wild animals around and is fearful they are coming too close. She is worried she will not be able to protect you.

Thats a lovely reading and hopefully it will be useful as well. I particularly like the idea that dogs come back to us because their lives are so short in comparison to ours and its lovely to think that we get another chance to be together with them. I just wanted to say that I used an animal communicator to speak with my rescue koolie, Chester when I first bought him home from the pound 12 months ago. I decided to do that rather than wonder and ask myself questions about his past. I find rescue dogs challenging because so many questions come up in my mind about their past and why they do things and their health issues etc.

These are some of the things that I learned via the animal communicator. Chester was able to introduce himself and his likes and dislikes. He communicated that he was confused as he couldn't seem to please his past owners even though he wanted to and so the communicator was able to tell me a bit about how to treat him to give him confidence, which was very helpful. I also found out the feeding background as to why he has a sensitive stomach as he couldn't eat when I first got him. I asked what games he likes and he didnt respond which was interesting because he had not been taught any games. He said that what he really likes is 'movement' ie chasing things that move fast - I found that out pretty quickly. I felt the reading was reassuring for me to get to know him and he settled in more quickly as a result. I had a few ideas for names, however the communicator said that he really liked the name Chester, which surprised her as well, and he did respond well to the name which has remained ever since.

It's interesting that you got such detailed answers. I hope that it will help with her treatment and living with you.

Have you seen the thread on DOL about arthritis? http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=155119

Actually I was just reading that thread - $6000 is a lot of money and I would have to go back to work to pay it - of course, that may happen any way given the state of the stock market.

Wow, did any of the answers make sense, like the glass jar one? It is very in depth, did you have a dog that was taken away from you when you were younger at all? I would love it if dogs came back to us in some way. You have my curiosity peaked about it all, might be fun to give it a try especially with Izzy with her past.

How is Perry doing anyhow with the arthritis? Will you try massage, try bowen with animals they respond really well to it. In the past I have had it done to my horse and she loved it.

We did have a dog when I was very small - it died and we were never allowed to have another one. The jars on the counter contain dog treats which she knows because she gets them. The only other jar has tea bags. I am sure the older woman is my friend who is grieving her brother who has recently died and was a soldier - Perry loves her greatly. I like the idea of much loved dogs coming back to us - I have always felt that Perry and I were meant to be together. I do wonder what wild animals she hears at night since we live in suburbia - we do have a fox that comes through the garden in the middle of the night and some possums but that is about it.

She really is not improving much. I have just started the second tub of Joint Guard. I don't know of a bowen therapist around here who will treat animals but I have friends looking for one. The physiotherapist gives her massage but if I keep this up I am going to have to go back to work in order to pay for it and then I won't be home for the physio to be able to come and treat her.