Hi

My name is Emily, I have a 9 month old koolie x border collie. I believe from what i have seen online that my pup is mostly koolie, i cant see any border collie in him.

if anyone has any tips that might help with his training, please feel free to share :)

oh if someone can tell me how to put pics from my comp onto here i will...i cant figure it out :/

Welcome Emily,

I'm a new member too. I have a Border Collie X Koolie as well but she looks more Border Collie then Koolie and I also have a Koolie and an Australian Shepherd there photos are under Bella and Mucca photos. I know how to put photos on but it took me a while so hopefully some one who can explain it better then me will reply.

Welcome again
Kym

hi kym

yeah i saw you're photos, u have cute dogs :)

my pup, Razzle, looks different again :) Yeah i can see the border collie in ur pup, wish i could pst a pic so u could see my boy :)

thanks for the welcom :)

Welcome to the forum Emily!!

Try posting your photos in another area of the forum and an attachment button may appear?

Hi Dannybrush a big welcome from me and my gang sorry that i am late with the welcome, i you like i can post your pic's for you until you learn how. do you have a photobucket account????

Welcome, most people start up an account in other areas like flickr or photobucket and then use the copy that link and when you press the link here (it looks like a tree) paste it into there. That is how I do it, I am sure someone may have a better way or better way of explaining than I. Welcome, My last boy was a Border collie x bull terrier, beautiful creature (still miss him). again!

um...whats photobucket? i have pictures on my computer just saved in folders can u upload from there?, i do have a website, but the recent pics of my boy arent up yet

below is the link to my pup pics online use the following Username: dandybrush password; zuhara

http://www.dandybrush.com/gallery/displayi...um=6&pos=17






howdy :) yeah i might have to look into photobucket :/

thanx for the welcomes everyone :) this is a very friendly place

Oh he is a very cute little pup! Now you need to put some photos up of him now he's older!!

Photobucket link http://register.photobucket.com/?cid=2703&...=0&mid=2853

You'll need to resize photos so they are smaller otherwise for those on dial up they take a long time to download!

Hi I'm Penny, I have just one Koolie, Dice, and I'm from New Zealand. I also have 3 Welsh Springer Spaniels, Sherry, Quinn and their daughter Ashley ...

Photobucet is really easy. You just register yourself there, put your pics into your photobucket album, (fairly small size pics or they take ages to download) then go back to the forum, when you click the tree, a bar asking if you trust this website will come up, click yes, then go back to the tree and it will come up with a box you can paste the direct link into.
Easy! :-)
I find it easiest to open two tabs, one with the forum and one with the photobucket on, and just flick between them.

Here's Dice :-)

Hi Penny, what a cute pup you have :)

i might look into photobucket tomorrow and set it up so you can all see my pup :)

OK, I'm out of the closet and saying it out loud here. Yea, Koolies are 50percent of the time at least merled. sometimes blue, sometimes red. That is not what makes a Koolie. Other breeds also display the merle gene, and unfortunatley some breeders with a cheep eye to quick profit try and breed only merle to merle only so they can cash in on the koolie craze. Fact is, border collies, kelpies, bloody dalmations, aussie shepherds can also be merle. A Koolie is in the conformation. Penny Nalders dog dice is a classic example and their are videos of Dice and a merle Border which looks similar. NO! The Koolie's distinctive feature is in its forelegs IMO, check out dice compared to the border. You can see it in Dice.They forelegs are wide apart and set at amost 90 degrees down from the shoulders. It accounts for the Kooolie being able to cross its legs and other things, and its speed and endurance-no one ever had a Koolie with joint probs in the prime of its lefe i bet. There are many foundation dogs for koolies around, but it is in the genes that create that particular mobility up front Koolies have. That's just the physical, and there may be more conformation issues, but that's a biggie. Please Koolie club, start requiring it. Of course there is the nature and personality, and the bloody dangerous merle fad yada yada-but really as special as Kollies are-that is so vague. The time has come for proper judgement on conformation. We know these dogs, we know their grand history. Let's nail it NOW, for the sake of the breed.

Oh and Penny, your Dice is such a fine example. I love him to bits and have confidence in him as the no. 1 sire in kiwiland. He is king of Koolies there as far as I am concerned, a bit merled, a bit shaggy, but he has the je' ne' sais quais we all know of Koolies- and BTW! Whats wrong w/shaggy Coolies-yeah? they pick up a few burrs?-do they or the cows notice-? NO! Another bloody fashion statement I say- My idiots even have drop ears-ALL THE BETTER FOR KEEPING FLIES OUT! So there! My dogs were selected from Kollies and a smidge of High achievibg Kelpie-that's what you call a foundation dog. But the Koolie was sought after and introduced as the big improvement.My blokes have the dead set 90 degree angle forelegs, good black cover merle, and good champion work antecedents. Oh, they love me to bits too-they are affectionate-they dont have the weird coldness I notice alot of Borders have, also, they are more biddable and calmer than many kelpies.At the end of the day they are thinking tough guys with big brains-now that's a Koolie IMO.

the problem with longer coats, they pick up grass seeds and burrs No wrong they don't the short coats pick up grass seeds,a few weeks back very time i took my guys out of the yard to work or go for a walk they would get grass seeds (spear grass) stuck in their coats and i would have to use a flea comb to get the seeds out apart from quin and Ice i never have to brush them, but while they have a coat that repels grass seeds those two run the higher risk of dropping dead on me they heat up faster and take longer to cool down, the longer coated dogs are more suited to cooler places like N.Z the snowy mountain's yes i know that it does get hot there too i lived near the snowys for 6 years but it's hot for a shorter amount of time.ears up or down flies don't care but down ears help to keep grass seeds out but at the same time they hold moisture and heat in which can lead to yeast infections more often then on a pricked eared dog so really one is not better then the other. shaunagh maybe you could do a drawing to show people what you mean for the people that don't get the shoulder angle bit, and as you know i have solids as well as Merle's but try selling a litter of koolie pups every one that rings up wants a merle and most of the time with a blue eye and it can be hard to find homes for the solids so a lot of people that breed try to keep away from breeding solids as they don't want to be stuck with them, i myself have not had that problem and as every one knows that summa had that litter last yr 6 solids and one with a little bit of merling on him and none i would call nice a colour and most of them took after their father in body shape so ended up looking like German Shepard X's and their markings helped to also give that illusion and i must admit that i was very worried that i would be stuck with half the litter but by the time they were 4/5 mths old they were all gone the pet owners were the first to jump in wanting the blue eyed Merle's they lucked out big time lol and the last ones to go all went to working homes, so the solids do sell just a lot slower. And i like the solids some have very nice markings but because the koolies don't really have a set body shape and size it is are very hard to tell them apart from a kelpie x border x and with dogs like Dice and Snowy heavy set broad heavy heads Aussie X's sorry penny and local host i know they don't have Aussie in them as i know their blood lines but that's what they look like to me where's my red and jackie's Rocco look like kelpies and i had a kelpie breeder that came here and seen Rocco and said to me nice looking kelpie there and people that see jax think he is a border, but we need different bodied dogs the lighter smaller dogs for sheep work and bigger heavier dogs for cattle work so they can take the knocks and kicks the cattle dish out, so to set a standard for this breed would be very hard indeed and to be honest if they did start talking about setting that standard i would be up shit creek with out the paddle as i don't have very many Victorian koolies here as they are a softer working dog nothing bad there they have been bred to work sheep and European cattle which don't stand 17 to 19 hands high and don't give a shit if you, your car horse truck motorbike or dogs are in the way they will just plough over you and straight though any type of fencing that gets in their way, in fact i was getting a bit worried last night when i took jax out with me to move the cattle away from the house area so the dogs would not bark all night i don't know what breed one of them was but it was a nasty bit of work it came at me but i ran at it with a big stick yelling like a mad woman lol so it choose to chase poor jax instead which was not fair because jax was already running away from me too! lol poor boy i scared the hell out of him but he came back and helped move the cattle off so all was good. Sorry got of track there as i was saying for a standard to be set for the koolies the main body of the koolie club would have to look at koolies from all states and not just their Victorian dogs sorry guys but i seen this happen in the cavy club the Victorians changed the standards to suit them as they could not get their animals right even to the point of changing one breeds name to another and stuffing up both breeds as new comes did not know that others to breeds could not be bred together sorry i know that does not make any sense to you guy's but i know what i am talking about lol so when it's time for a standard to set set i think a meeting should be held with two - four breeders from each state and they should be cattle and sheep farmers not townies or pet owners because koolies are working dogs first and above every thing else we don't want them to end up like the rest of the show dogs walking vet bills.
OK now you can all attack me i have finished having my say lol

I agree with you Royalla, I know I'm new to the koolie breed in general. But i completely understand that koolies are bred to work and are bred to suit their line of work. I would never think that making them all one standard would be a good idea. Koolies are unique, awesome dogs, I would not think making them "standard" is anything special, they are special as they are and all so unique

Thats just my 2 cents worth

I'm just shooting my mouth off because I don't really know any more about Koolies that what I've learned since I've had Koolies, what I've read and the opinions of actual breeders like Royala who are hands on with them. I actually don't think much of looks and conformation breeding for all the reasons stated, and I like to blow hard occasionally about how good the variations in Koolies are eg, solid/merle, long/short to keep attention on the fact that the variation is normal, solids are normal etc. Knowing what I know now I would have a solid any day. Now, as for my mad theory about the shoulder and forelegs, I'll try and dig up some photos. I saw it stick out with Dice in comparison to the merle border collie.

hey guy's i am not having a go's at uses i was just saying that you can't say one dog is a example of the koolie bred as they are all different in shape and size take my spice she is a medium build tall dog and stands at 570 at the shoulder long body very long legs (n.s.w x Vic blood lines) and Red is 560 at the shoulder with a longer body again (Vic blood lines) then lets take Quin he is 480 at the shoulder short body and a bit heavier build (central southern q.l.d) then Dance and Connie (A.C.T and snowy's) Dance 520 Connie 510 lighter boned but not as light as Bron who is from central n.s.w area and is only about 470 to small and light for the work i have here but a great little sheep worker so i do have her up for sale as she does not meet my needs, yes quin is a short ass but he is heavier boned and can take the knocks and bounce back but even he has had his ribs broken twice now and his top jaw cracked once so a little fine boned dog like Bron would not last long at all but she is perfect for sheep work now lets chuck in summa and Ice northern n.s.w the same build as quin but a bit taller and longer body 520 to 530 quin was bred in flat country dance and Connie mountains summa and ice hills red and spice's father i think is rolling hill country sil you will have to help me out there it has been so long since i have been down to bendigo it's not funny but you see the dog's have been bred to suit the work and the terrain of that area they are in, the big lanky dogs like spice and red would be no good in the mountains but the little bit lighter and medium dogs like dance are perfect smaller dogs suit to flat country and low hills but in poor Bron's case some one would have to go out first and mow the paddocks so she can find the stock lol she is funny to watch when i send her out to get the sheep in she is like a jack rabbit popping up here and there until she finds them lol, i am no expert on koolies this is just what i have seen in my own dogs and i have not been in koolies for all that long but i do listen to old breeders like hunterslea she has had koolies for over 40 yrs and a couple non member breeders that have had koolies for 20 yrs and more.

I think you make an excellent point re the regional variations. I've seen it noted here and there but I'm not sure if it's official-but it's definately obvious and common sense for the different stock the dogs work, and the different conditions they work and live in-and this is a big country-not like europe. There would be all kinds of foundation dogs from all over,with all kinds of traits for all kinds of reasons.It's good to get the discussion going again from time to time.

Hello to everyone! I have been reading about what everyone feels is the correct Koolie for Australian conditions. When choosing a working dog, you must select the type of dog for the job/s you need it to do. You don't work a hunting dog in the city, nor a worker in the desert. All breeders owe it to their breed, to use only the type of dog most suited to that job it will have to do. I agree with the breeders that use taller dogs to herd sheep, and for cattle work- use shorter sturdy dogs for cattle. WHY: Taller dogs can see when the sheep break away from all areas of the flock, and cattle workers, being a "little" bit shorter and stockier, can stand their ground and duck that swinging hoof. Being tall and light weight can produce a nimble worker, but also produces an ideal target.
Why are so many breeders scared that the "show" attitude to a breed standard, will destroy or interfere with the Koolie breeding? Any and all breeding, is subject to a breed standard. Don't you breed to a type you prefer? Shouldn't Koolies conform to a type for working? Wasn't there a mention of a 90 degree shoulder? That is shoulder angulation! A lay back shoulder is a prefered point, but not the total picture. Take the dog as a whole. A straight shoulder (shoulder angulation), and a straight rear (rear angulation), works just as well, though not prefered,because the dog is balanced. Always strive to get the correct level, but don't forget that the ideal dog has never been bred, that's why we are still breeding.

The Breed Standard;-
How can anyone with Koolies have a universal breed standard! The dogs are short, tall, light, heavy, long, medium and short coat. Merle and solids, from traceable blood lines, and from nowhere. A lot are from 1st and 2nd X breds. All you can aim for is a dog that has conformation. A breed standard is only a guide as to what the ideal working Koolie should have, to be a good working dog 'type'. This has absolutely nothing to do with the show ring, but is a measure of a quality working 'TYPE' dog. The show ring standard is only a guide to better breeding.
So sit down where you can see your dogs, and mentally go over these same dogs, and look for faults. [Eg. does my dog have a good head. Do his eyes look bright and intelligent, and can he see well. Are his ears in the right place for hearing the instructions you give, and the animals he is to work. Turned ears or pricked, which is better?] THIS IS THE MEANING OF A BREED STANDARD! Breed to a type!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glendawns comments were very pertinent. We have to think about the whole continent of Australia when we think about Koolies, and maybe Koolie people will be the first to take a breed standard or conformation on this basis. The fact is though, that there is a breed called Koolies and we are trying to promote and keep that grand old breed going. The reason-because they are a "real good dog, do the work of two men" as my Grandad said about Koolies, or German Coolies as he called them. He worked his entire life in the sheep yards in the Riverina and knew the breed well.

We don't want silly show pony dogs coming down the line, and as a city person with two Koolies-to be honest, I don't think it's good in the majority of cases to encourage city people to take on the breed unless the dog has a definate day to day job. People get BC's thinking they are a nice medium size pretty dog, and they end up so frustrated-and the dog gets called obsessive and dysfunctional-and it's because they are in the wrong environment, and it's not fair. So breeders try and breed docility into them-that's wrong!

It would seem obvious to me that different dogs are selected in different places for different types of work. Long legged, short, pushy, cautious. Well it depends on what they're doing which makes something an attribute or a defect. Having said that, I beieve there is structural consistency in Koolies, and I have come to believe it is in the front haunches most noticably, from my observation of a few fair dinkim Koolies, and hundreds of pic's.

I am not a geneticist, but my interest in the dogs has got me researching. There are particular physical characteristics which also generally indicate a personality type or other characteristics, because both those characteristics occur on the same Allelle on the gene responsible for one thing or another. A shorthand way of saying it is that you may see a big black(or red or brindle or whatever) dog and you will also register intuitively that that dog may be aggressive, or loyal or whatever, and 90% of the time you're right. That's because traits are often inherited with other traits. There are always exceptions to the rule, but that is for other reasons.

At the moment with Koolies people are still trying to attach their intuitive understanding of the dog with certain physical and temperamental traits (which is not necessarily merling)with Koolies. That's step one I suppose, but there is a step further.

There are now hundreds of pic's of Koolies (both new and old timey) on the web. Have a look at them. Close your eyes to merling, pinky noses and wall eyes. If the dogs were just plain black how would they stand out from BC's, Kelpies and ACD's (an underrated influence in my view, same as with Dingos).

As far as I've got so far is a particular structure in the front haunches. I describe it generally as forelegs originating from the side haunches, and forlegs with extreme mobility in all directions-and BLOODY ELBOWS that stick out. Look at BC's, Kelpies, and to a smaller extent ACD's. Very different. Ha Ha, Royalla thinks I'm talking about elbow lumps. No, I mean forelegs that allow all kinds of flexibility and mobility other breeds don't have. Regardless of what and where the Koolie works, this is distictive.

OK, that's my mad rant for today-I'll leave the rest to the Club!

Ha Ha, Royalla thinks I'm talking about elbow lumps.
Um no i know you are not talking about elbow lumps i just find connie's elbow lumps unsightly they always stand out in pic's and are the size of pin pong balls they are not scabs on her elbows but bloody big ugly round lumps like pin pong balls you can even put your fingers in behind them and pull them away from her bones. you are talking about the 90% angle from the shoulder blades to the elbow and as i put up a pic of Connie so you could see the diffrance between her and say red it was my way of saying sorry for her unsightly elbows

Look, I'm thinking this is probably an appropriate time for us all to apologise for unsightly elbow lumps-human or canine. Doesn't Nivea have a product for that?