i have a 9 month old koolie x, i have just commenced crate training him, so the last 2 nights he has slept in the crate in our bedroom. and he whinges, constantly, i hardly get any sleep :/

does anyone know how i can get him to love his crate and be calm while inside?

I feed mine in crates and give them bones while they are in their.

I used to do it for short periods of time when they were puppies, now they will go all night, not that they stay in their crates, at night they just lay around the house, on the couch, on the floor everywhere. They will just sleep in their open crates as well.

Go in small doses to start off with, feeding them inside is good. I also put a blanket or sheet over mine to start off with so it looks like a den a bit of a security area. Leave the door open to start with and reward and create a big fuss when they go in, give them a juicy bone and close the door. Make it fun.

Hey I have just been through it with Piera my Australian Shepherd but she was a lot younger.. There is a dvd called crate games by Susan Garrett. I found it to be a really good help and now all of my dog love their crate. It is worth watching if you are prepard to put the time in to train your dog.

Kym

thanks, i know i started a bit late with the crate training.

i try to get very excited lots of praise and treats whenever he goes near the crate. he will put his front feet in, but i struggle to get him all in, cause he doesnt want me to shut the door.

during the day i put him in for short doses approx 3 mins (thats how long it takes him to settle down) then i reward him settling down by letting him out :/

I have a kong made up with peanut butter and chicken and devon, and i give him chewy things. soon as i shut the door on him he is not interested in anything but getting out. he also gets his dinner in it...I might have to find that dvd. we've only put him in it all night for 3 nights, how soon should i be seeing an improvement? how long did it take u to crate train Kym?

you are about half way i had one pup that killed 2 wire crates i would give her tea in her crate then let her out about 20 mins later so that she could get a drink and go to the lady's room lol and have a short play then i would put her back in with a bone or pig's ear and she was always very happy to go in but stay in NO WAY she would always get out, in the end i had to wire the crate door closed the first night that i did that i listened to her cry scream howl crash and bash that crate until 2am in the morning then it went quite and i thanked god that she had gave up and settled down lol what a fool i was she had gotten out again so i tried to lock her in the yard pens nope she killed them to so in the end i chained her up in the yard pens and she still got off and out but in the end i won by putting her out on the big dogs chain, why did i put up with all that and not give in was because she always jumped the house feance and one night she hung herself by the hind leg and de-gloved it from her knee down to her foot and i was not going to have that happen again well any way after a week on the chain she now thinks crates are good to sleep in i have 3 crates that look like they should go to the tip lol most dogs will conplain for about a week then give in and i still crate train the same way i give them their tea in the crate let them out then call them back in saying bed time and give them a bone or raw hide and it has always worked apart from Mirra who now stays in the crates and the yard pen and does not jump over the fence anymore i think the orange tape helped there lol i know a lot of people don't like hot wires but i think it's a lot better that they get one or 2 zaps then de-gloveing their legs or hanging themselves

I agree, we have a low fence, which raz hasnt jumped yet, if he ever does i will put the tape around the top, rather scare him off the fence than have him hit by a car...

ok, i might buy some pigs ears...he loves them :) i feed him at about 7.30 in the crate, then i let him out soon as he offers a sit, no whingeing. i will increase that when he gets more comfortable. after dinner i try to play with him for 2 hours..to make him tired (he doesnt whinge as long if he is tired) say 'beddybise' and go to his crate, he wont go in for bed, so i have to push him (that wont ruin any training will it Janet?) then i cover the crate so he cant see us, eventually when he stops whingeing, i will leave the cover off.

ok so half way, fingers crossed he stops whingeing by friday :/ would be nice lol. once he is crate trained im gonna move the crate from our bedroom to the living area and thats where i want him to sleep.

i would put the crate out here now and leave the T.V going to keep him company and also it helps to drown out his whining and you get to sleep lol, never push him in encourage him to go in food or toy what ever it takes to get him to go in by himself, even mirra was happy to go in she just did not stay in lol

if i dont push him in...he wont go in :( he knows to leave his bak legs out so i cant lock it :/ nothing will convince him to go in completely

Crate training! Best thing is to just stick it out I'm sorry. Have you got a jumper or shirt of yours inside the crate? It might help settle him. Don't let him out until he has stopped whingeing for about 10secs. Remember to let him out to toilet as he may be used to free toilet access from wherever he was previously. At 9mths though you should only need one at most per night, so you might need to be the judge of the need for toiletting. The TV or a radio talk station is also a good idea if you leave him in it while you're out.

Recent foster I had didn't like the crate at first - she screamed all night first night and then I tethered her and put the crate next to her with some treats inside and I found she slept in there but I didn't lock her in. In the couple of weeks she was here she learnt to accept the crate, she wasn't enthusiastic about it, there was a lot of whingeing but when we came home she was quiet.

My Paxy didn't like her crate at first and was never very enthusiastic about going into it so she had to have a helping hand quite a few times. I didn't feed her in there but I did leave nice little snacks in there throughout the day for her to find. Always at the back so she had to go all the way in. I introduced the soft crate the same way, left it out with nice treats inside and ignored it and her, praised her if I found her in it though. Pig's ear, biscuits, dry kibble, kong, something special! When she was young I always put her in with a kong with cream cheese, she's not a peanut butter girl! Just the licking would help settle her down. I covered her crate and still do at night just to keep the warmth in for her esp in winter, plus when she was tiny she would not sleep if not covered. She does like her crate now and puts herself to bed at night. She rarely goes into it during the day voluntarily but if we go out and she has to be left inside (if it's raining or extreme heat) we tell her "into bed" and throw a few treats in there. I have even crawled halfway into the crate to get her interested in going in the crate at times. I have always tried to make the crate a special place that is rewarding to be in for her. Just stick to it and you'll get there, you'll be tired though!!!

ok yeppo ill stick it out, like you i leave treats in there, he is constantly sniffing inside, i never let him out whinging. Yeah he is pretty good with the toilet thing we take him out before bed and he can hold it all night. yeah i could tether him outside and put the crate beside him.. that might work, maybe. Ill see if this way works first, yeah i just pushed him into the crate for his dinner, and he ate it all then when he sat i let him out.

I might try the cream cheese, and i have to buy some pigs ears, which he loves, like i said before though he isnt interested in food once inside the crate :( (yet) yes he gets lots of goodies for going in/near the crate

i just discovered that he will put his front 2 feet in for a tug toy, if i say "in your bed" he puts his feet inside, stares i get all excited and pull out the "special" tug toy (he only gets for popping inside :) now i just have to get the rest of him in it :/

i'll stick it out, sounds like there is no real easy way...

I'll keep you all up to date on his training :)

Well, your dog is a bit old for the crate, but you could soften the experience with mega treats. But start getting into the psycology. This is a very intelligent active type breed. Why the crate anyway? I don't know your situation, but I'm thinking the dog is toilet trained already? Is there some other reason the dog should be confined? Are you excercising the dog enough through the day? My limited experiece is that Koolies are actually very patient dogs. It may be you just have to wait anor 3 months till the dog is out of its adolescence. Why is the dog in the crate anyway at this age? More info please! Does your dog have its own proper bed? Should you be working around graduating that from nearby you to where you ultimately want the dog to sleep. Is the dogs bed inviting enough? What's the prob? More info, there is a mine of experience here.

he used to sleep outside, yes he is toilet trained. I became too much a worry wart for his safety, plus he barks, and have decided to sleep him inside.

I want him to sleep in the tv room, but i know he wont stay there when we go to bed. So i have the crate set up in our bedroom atm until he adjusts, then ill move it towards where I want him. I'm hoping eventually he wont need to be locked in teh crate, cause he will know where to sleep, but he would come running for the bedroom right now if i left him out

quick update:

last night was the same as the others, he tears his blanket up in tantrum, which is good makes him quiet so i can sleep nothing extroardinary, he cried the same, then finally slept.

Hopefully he will give up the whinge all together soon
cant wait for that dvd Kym ;)

if he finally slept then you are now starting to get there, it will get better every night from now on i have train full grown dogs to crate train some are harder then others and if he is barking at night then it is best for him to be inside that way both of you can't get into trouble from the council and another way around it is to tie him to the end of your bed so that he learns that is his place to sleep and if he jumps up onto your bed and you don't want him on it just tell him down until he gets the hint that the floor is his and you the master have the bed i did that with dance but she was also very easy to crate train .... ok i will join you i have never crated cruise so tonight i will crate him ???? just trying to remember where my medium size crate is as the big one won't fit in my room anyway cruise is 5 mths old all the girls know how to crate so i can't pick on one of them in fact i think cruise is the only one that has never been crated but i may have to spray him with a doggie cologne as it has been raining half the day today so he may be a bit smelly lol

if he has never been crated...i think you're in for no sleep too unless the crate wont be in you're bedroom

You can play games with the crate too - throwing a ball in there for them to retrieve or any toy. It helps them familiarise with the crate as an interesting or exciting place. It sounds like he is starting to settle down. In a few days you could start moving the crate to the other room during the day (the one that you eventually want him to sleep in). This will help him realise that the crate can be in that room too.
Shaunagh I understand your concerns about crating an older dog but Rax is only 9 months and is still capable of getting up to mischief if left to his own devices in the night or early morning. Training can occur at any age but it is much easier to start with them as a pup. I think with time I will probably not shut Paxy's crate door as she's quite happy to sleep in there and I don't think I'm likely to find the couch eaten when I come downstairs now! Paxy has on occasion tried to dig her way out of the crate but this rarely happens now. Sometimes it's a management issue with crating as the dog is not used to being inside alone and can wreak havoc on furniture and other household items or there is no other place available for the dog to sleep.

Well I guess you can crate an older dog, but I thought it was toilet training and that's what had me scratching my head-Now I could probably come up with some good reasons to re-crate mine-ha ha

More like keepin a young dog from getting up to mischief while you are sleeping.

I personally don't have that problem, with so many dogs and toys to play with they rarely touch my things. I was reading the other night and ignoring Frazzle so he went and got his own novel.... hmmm I don't think he has the art of reading mastered yet!! The book is minus a few pages now.

blue dog i have discovered raz loves tug toys, so whenever he goes in or near the crate i get all excited and allow him to play with it (he gets it no other time) but if i was to throw something in he would not go in after it...he really hates being locked up, i'm not sure why.

Jackie, what a clever pup learning to read

Does anyone think its a control issue, maybe raz wants to be in control and so doesnt like being locked up? I dunno im grasping, but he really frustrates me when i go to lock him in for bed :/

its a heavy crate, i dont really want to move it all the time, but maybe i should try :/

ok that was no fun at all don't take that the wrong way cruise did not winge or cry at all but i could not find my smaller crate so i had to use a big one and to get that to fit in my room i had to take my dresser out lol lucky i have lots of veranda's with french doors leading on to them from my bed room and french doors are not sound proof anyway he was a good boy no crying but every time i turned over his tail started waging at a hundred miles an hour do you know what that sounds like in the still of the night lol, a tail bashing on the sides of the wire crate it set the other dogs of barking so i had to get up and tell them to SHUT UP lol. I think Cruise was just glad not to be out on chain but he is getting to that age now were girls on heat smell very interesting and Boo is on heat.

Dogs love dens, somewhere dark and cosy so definately keep the crate covered. in a wire crate two things go against an uncovered crate being a place they want to be: they feel exposed, - things can approach them from all directions, and also they can't escape, should something they want to get away from approach.

Mine are the dogs bedrooms, have the doors open all day, and they sleep there, as it's cosy, and plenty of comfy blankets. the rest of the carpet isn't nearly as nice a place to sleep :-)

You might try staying with him while he's in the crate with food, perhaps read a book nearby so he can relax and eat, knowing you're not deserting him in prison, until he gets more used to it.

haha thats funny royalla, :)

quick update: raz settled alot quicker this time round so good we opened the front so he could see out. and he woke up to whinge for maybe 2 mins at about 3 am then slept through till 6 am with me :)

i think i'll always leave the blanket over him, for that comfort factor, i havent been locking him in during the day at all atm, cause i dont want to put him off it completely. he sniffs around and will put front feet in it, thats it by choice atm

soon as i lock him in he is not interested in any food so i just wont do that atm, he is getting better at night, so that is a start

you live near brissy danny have i got that right? maybe you should pop up here and we will see if your baby is interested in a bit of sheep work it will wear him out and he will sleep well, and apart from that i have a lot of room up here for him to have a big run round and i think i might be able to find one or two 5,6, 7, 17 koolies for him to play with lol that should really wear him out

Sounds like you're making good progress. I think you might find that as he learns to accept the crate he will relax more and start to be interested in any food when you put him in there. Lots of praise and happy voice! Just leave it in there if he doesn't eat it and he might go back to it during the day.

Penny I leave mine covered all the time too. A few old towels do the trick for me. Paxy has been crated a lot over the last few days as we are having all the concrete paving around our house front and back redone and there's been a lot of activity outside with grinding and glueing cracks. So it's been toileting on lead and then inside time. Needless to say when we went to the park yesterday afternoon she was a complete nut. She swam for about 200m and wouldn't come back in and then decided that every dog was her best friend. Plus it's now raining and so we're delayed further and walks are out (park is too sqelchy underfoot). So Paxy is on close terms with her crate at the moment! She's even been allowed to eat her bones in there and bring them out on the rug later! If my mother-in-law could see!!!

OK, now just on this subject-My Alby has always been a one to love a cubby or crate-just so long as its his, and it's cozy it's fine. I never crated either of mine. Apart from the odd remote chewed up when he was at the height of his teething Jacksy "darling" was always into having his own space and bed,-as time has gone on I've worked out he needed to have two things in ear and eyeshot to settle down at night-me and the front door-so his own pozzy on his bed down the hall did him from the get go-that dog was a guarder of me it turns out, and just needed a spot where he could do his job. His little pesty brother ALBY (@##@*#-which means "you bloody little......some days) had a thing about being scared of thunder from early days-like really scared-so he would find his own den to hide out in on those nights, and to this day loves a cubby of his own at bed time. Bizarre thing has happened though. Bloody Jacksy started getting storm anxious just in the last couple of months. He's boody 6! But hes bloody faking it because it never was a prob before. He's bloody copying Alby!Alby gets lots of reassuring attention when a storm comes over. Yes he is cpying! But he doesn't want a cubby, just pats and tickles. He's fine when I am not looking, but if there is a storm and Alby goes and does his cubby thing, Jacksy turns on the DRAMA and looks at me and starts shaking.I'm not exagerating-and looking really pathetic. Then he gets his tickle and he's fine. I'm not nut's here, I know my dogs. Bloody Jacksy has learned to bung on acts to get high end rewards! Can you believe it. Bloody little copy cats! Bloody smart Koolies. Of course I got sucked in, but I'm a wake up now! I told him to snap out of it last time, and guess what-he did!

Yes dogs are smart enough to work that out. Storms thank goodness I have not had too much trouble with them. Ceejay used to be scared of them, I started playing with her ball out in the patio area, that worked. Ball wins over fear factor anytime with Ceejay.

yes that does work on a lot of ball crazy dogs but it didn't on my old blue heeler she put the back screen door which opened outwards inside the house wnen i was not quick enough one day and another time i was just in time to stop her leaping through a closed window to ge into the house that one gave my a real scare, Dutchess was scared of storms when i first got her so it was already set in, i have found the best way to dampen it down with a young dog is never to pat, cuddle or sook it when storms are hanging about sit quictly and read a book or stat cooking something that the best one as dogs are always hopeful lol

almost forgot last night was a shit night with Cruise in the crate but not his fault as i said yesterday Boo is on heat and she must be getting very close to that right time because Red turned into a bloody wolf last night an every hour on the hour he started howling which sets every dog howling crying and bloody yipping the yipping was summa the crying was spice and the bloody rest howled including Cruise but he was cut of before he got to finish his first note but the others were not going to shut up until Red shut up and he was determined to saranaid (sorry can't spell it lol) Boo but he got the point in the end when i went down and flipped him on his back and told him i am going to brain you you with a lump of 4x4 if you howl once more and i got 3 hours of unbroken sleep after that

haha, thats awesome royalla

yeah i have never had any probs with raz being scared of storms.

He is sleeping throught the night better these days, its just getting him in the crate, soon as i say bed time he wont come near me, he went all submissive on his bak in the tv room last night, i had to pick him up and carry him to the crate, he cried for a little then settled, im so very glad he doesnt cry all night, i just hope he will adjust

Shaunagh sometimes storm phobias appear in a dog around 7 years of age when they have had no prior fear of storms. The reason is not known. That's not to say that he hasn't made a connection with Alby's behaviour and the attention he gets so he is copying! As Ceejay said working through the storm with a dog in drive is a great way to help them cope, although if you have a long storm you could be a bit tired afterwards! Making sure you have a safe place for the dog to retreat to is essential for storm phobic dogs, whether that's a cubbyhole, crate or room. We've all heard of some of the horror stories that happens to dogs during storms. There are also some medications you can try both homeopathic and medical for storm phobic dogs. Remember for some dogs it's not just the sound, but the atmospheric pressure, the static electricity and they're also more sensitive to vibrations through their feet - sound waves.

Bluedog I didn't know that about the feet, you learn something new everyday. Ceejay has a phobia, the dreaded whipper snipper, she is a lot better now then she has ever been. But when Jeff picks up the whipper she quickly comes up to me. I tend to walk outside with her and throw the ball. Getting better, but I think it is the noise, it has a high drone.

Also watch your dog if you happen to be out in a storm when the dog suddenly bolts you run after the dog. We were out in the park and the storm was a fair way off, but my old dog Zorro took off and I thought 'oh *@#* and ran after him' the bolt came down and hit the railway track, blinded me, it was close. You should have felt the air afterwards, weird, static. So listen to your dog they know more than you think. lol.

Dandy it sounds like Raz is getting better with the crate, I think sometimes patience and perseverance are the only way to do it. Sometimes it takes LOTS of it. hehe.

thanks Ceejay...you're right LOTS of perserverance is in order for my boy :) he doesnt cry as long at night but he does run away from me come bed time :/
he also doesnt fuss to go in now, he just walked straight in last night when i put him at the door to the crate

Lots of perserverance and LOVE!!! I did think in the middle of the night to ask you to make sure the size of the crate is right too! But he sounds very much like Paxy - if I was standing near the crate she wouldn't come near me. If I moved away she would go in. If I got INSIDE the crate (at least the front half of me) it was a rush for her to get in too!! She still has her moments. She doesn't like you standing next to the crate when she goes in. Since the weather has got colder she's actually putting herself to bed!

haha, yeah im hoping that its getting colder will help :) yeah the crate is big, i couldnt fit a bigger one in the house lol, soon as i say the word bed...i really have to catch him, he wont go in by choice yet...though im hoping that will change :)

he is actually no longer struggling, he just walks in the crate when i place him by the door to it, which is an improvement

he has regressed...he cries for hours now, and aaron has had enough :/ he keeps letting him out and putting him outside, i dont know if raz will ever be crate trained :(

maybe i should just lock him in the crate where i want him to sleep, maybe aaron wont hear him cry as much :/ or just leave him outside like we used to... i just dont know

I want to give that dvd from kym a go, but if we're giving up is there any point?

maybe i should put the crate where i want it...and just let raz loose in that room, and see if he chooses to sleep in the crate

sounds like Razz has now won thanks to Arron letting him out he now has learnd if he makes a big fuss he will be let out, so maybe you should lock Arron in the crate and let Razz sleep on the bed hahaha.

Royalla is right he rewarded Raz by letting him out. Bugger, either keep persevering or try and build a comfy zone for him outside. A kennel area, that is warm and secure.

Is your partner favouring Raz to be inside or outside?

haha..yeah i did think of that royalla lol. yes he has stuffed it right up. Aaron doesnt care where raz sleeps long as he is quiet, and not in the bedroom.

I spoke to our trainer, she said its normal for past actions (eg the crying constantly) to reappear as a last resort. if aaron had ignored him then we would be nearly crate trained by now. but because raz won its put us back.
I have the best trainer...she is coming to our house on thurs to assess him and teach me what to do. so till then im gonna work on the dvd Kym gave me and hopefully he will be a smigen happier to be locked in on thurs for danielle (our trainer) :/ I have promised to do everythign she says, so fingers crossed this works
And if raz is to be in our room...im putting aaron in teh spare room till he is trained

Extinction burst - things get worse before they get better!! Something to watch for when trying to extinguish behaviours. Aaron is very naughty but it can get on your nerves the constant crying so I do have some sympathy for him.
I hope your trainer has some good ideas for you!

i like your way of thinking hahaha poor Arron kicked out to the spare room. but you do have to be strong i own 3 metal crates all 3 are now stuffed and all by one dog and that was Mirra as a pup that girl could and still can get out of anywhere but if i have her stay inside the house (my room) for the night now she is happy to stay in the crate even tho it would not hold her but she gets to sleep in mums room where it is warm and cozy and not out on the chain or the pen down the back mind you the dog pens now look just as bad as the crates i have watched her go around the pen grabbing hold of the wire and giving it a gentle upward pull until she finds a weak spot and when she finds a weak spot you can see all the muscles in her neck flex and she just keeps pulling and tugging on it until the wire gives and she make a hole big enough for her to get out and that also lets the other dog thats in with her out. but as she has been getting older she has been settling down and excepting it a lot better and now is happy to stay put in the backyard or the chain yes she can get of the chain to when she wants to. but i don't think your boy is or will ever be as bad as Mirra he is just a crier typical male lol

yes blue dog thats what our trainer called it...would have been nice to know that was coming so i could have moved aaron out earlier

haha yes men!!! they just whinge lol, Royalla sounds like you have one very clever pup to be testing for weak spots lol. she must want it bad enough haha, did you ever get any sneak footage of her in the act? would be good to see.

So a question for everyones opinions before thursday. Until thursday we are tying raz up to his dog house outside (i dont wanna crate him till he is assessed for stress). in all you're opinions is crate training worth it? should i be putting raz bak through all that trouble we went through to crate train him or should we just continue to tie him up outside? and never have him crate trained I just wanna know what you all think as i am now having doubts about crate training him at all :(

I personally think it is a good idea to have them crate trained, but he seems to be very set against it!!

All of my dogs have been through it especially the males as they are locked in crates at night when the girls are in season as they don't like to sleep outside at night.

My dogs are fed in the crates (quite often there is two or three in the one crate as they cannot make their mind up which one I am feeding next) and when they are naughty have time out in the crate, I just have to point to them for them to go into their quiet room and off they go....

yes jackie that is what i want...i want raz confident and happy. if we persevere will he eventually stop being scared and crying do you think?

Should i be giving time outs in the crate? i currently give them in the bathroom

I am a bit loopy with my dogs and I don't like to see them distressed. I start crate training very early and so it is not so difficult, plus all of my dogs have flown (except for Frazz) in from southern states and have already endured crates to get to me. With a new one I often sit and read a book outside the crate and just keep them company until they settle. It does help that I have lots of dogs and it is not as if they are in the crate alone, there is usually other dogs around them.

The latest ones, Kelsey and Nudge, are 8 and 9 months old and went into the crates only to eat their dinner (I did have to push them in a couple of times, especially Kelsey as she came from being chained up on a farm with not much handling at all.) Now they are quite happy to stay in their crates if need be, especially if I am taking the four wheeler and don't want too many dogs following me (or if the cattle are on the fenceline creating a barking problem).

My crates are lined up in the garage beside my unit and it is where they are fed. They mostly sleep inside but some do also sleep in their crates with the doors open.

haha yes i think im loopy that way too, im prob as distressed as raz either that or i cause the distress cause i feel so guilty :/ I used to think crate training was stupid, but i can see so many benefits now that next time, i think ill start that as soon as i get the dog lol. when u feed them in the crate do u lock them in? i dont lock raz in but i only feed him if all 4 feet are in, else he will not get fed :/ eventually i would like him to sleep in it with the door open...haha i so wish i had started him as a pup, he would be trained by now lol

Can you use these crates on the back of utes?

Mac is getting too big to be in hubbies work ute. It gets quite squishy in the foot well, but I do love the head on the knee and those eyes looking up at you *sigh*. Sorry, where was I.

We want something that gives him shelter, so we were thinking that what ever we get, hubby will make a sheet metal cover to go over the top (thought of blue bratise (spelling) but it seems you can never stop the stuff flapping totally in the wind).

Dandybrush I lock my dogs in the crate with their tea, stops food swapping when my back is turned and I can go on with feeding the ACD's in the house and Kelsey with the pups in the bathroom!!

I used to use the collapsible crates in the back of the landcruiser under the canopy, but I have so many now that I have had a purpose built dog cage built for my ute with different compartments.

Shade is definately a must over your crate as you would not believe how hot it gets under the direct sun in the back of the ute.

ok i might progress to locking him in...but i wanna wait till he is a bit more comfortable, or i am whichever