Hi to all,

Finally getting on to the forum after having our boy Echo for 4-5 months now. He was a rescue located here in Sydney by Kerrie and her team and he is doing very well. He was origally called Demon - but it was not a name that suited and definitely not one we wanted him to grow into - although he has taken some time to grow out of it!

With such a high energy breed and arriving with 'issues' it has been a difficult few months with lots of damage to beds, toys, hoses, cupboards, chairs, plants, extension cords, mudflaps (4 to date), wiring on three cars, two trailers and a caravan and one numberplate. Echo was also a 'bad' jumper when he first arrived, nipped everybody and licked us continuously. It has been a long road but he has been slowly improving on all fronts. The jumping is more or less under control with the family, although new people still get him very excited and he still jumps at the back door. The nipping is just about gone unless we let the excitment escalate to high and then try to turn away from him (we have two other dogs and I feel it is more of a way to hold our attention). The licking however, is proving harder to, well, lick...

I have spoken to a vet that was involved with him with his previous owners and it seems that once he got bigger and his jumping and nipping got out of control he was left alone in a back yard until he escaped and ended up at the local pound.

We have been doing obedience for about 2 1/2 months and he has done very well in the classes, but now I find that after about 30 minutes he gets board - the next logical step would seem to be Agility - so in a couple of weeks we will be starting there.

Then on Saturday last I dropped in at an Agility trial that was happening just around the corner from our place in the Blacktown area and I meet Natalie and Bug - WOW! I never would have thought it possible to have such a gentle and relaxed working dog - especially a Koolie! I explained to Natalie all the dramas we have been having and she had so many ideas and suggestions and was a huge help. I described Echo's behaviour - all in the worst possible terms - and then asked if I could bring him along the next day. It is the same ground that we attend every week for obedience, so his behaviour should be OK. So on Sunday I returned with my wife, Andy, and Echo and bugger me if the little blighter isn't on his best behaviour! We spent a very relaxing couple of hours talking with Natalie and other people at the trial while Echo introduced himself to Bug and Natalie's Kelpie X, Ben.

Natalie was able to point out a couple of behaviours that we need to keep an eye on - especially the prey drive reactions. Also I was inspired by the whole atmosphere and the friendly people and I am now sure that agaility is the place for us.

We came away with a whole new outlook and we are really looking forward to getting to know more Koolie owners and have a go at Agility competetion.

This coming long weekend I am taking Echo out to an friends property where he will get to see a flock of sheep for the first time. My friend is on 1400ac west of Wagga and he has two Kelpies that work quite well... this should be nothing if not entertaining...

So, wrapping up this long winded intro, thank you all, in advance, for allowing us to be part of this little community. Especially thank you to Natalie and Bug, who have inspired us to try that little bit harder and work a little smarter. I will post some pics as soon as I get a chance.

Regards

Matt, Andy & Echo

Welcome Welcome Welcome, It looks like Echo has found the perfect home and although he has given you some challenges I'm sure you will learn a lot about training dogs from this experience. You will love agility it is a great sport and the dogs really love it. There is a dog that does agility here on the Gold Coast which is called Echo and it is really funny watching them run as you hear Echo, Echo, Echo. It is great that you have had the chance to speak to someone who has Koolies and has also given you tips. Good luck with the agility and I hope to meet you one day if you ever head to the ADAA Agility Grand Prix in Tamworth.

Kym

Welcome to the Koolie Forum, hope you enjoy our chatter and post us plenty of photos.

Your boy sounds like he is quite a handful.

Welcome!!

Yes sounds like you have you're hands full, looking forward to some piccies :)

Need any questions answered, this is the place to be, everyone on here is very helpful :)

Hi Matt and Andy, Glad you found your way here. Thanks for such kind words and it was great to meet all 3 of you. I thought Bug was abnormal until I got to know everyone on here and now I know she is your typical Koolie which is lovely and more than I could have ever dreamed of. I was expecting this horror dog to rock up on Sunday but Echo is sweet and delightful and was much better behaved than Bug during the day (especially when her flock of 1 was off playing ball without her) so I have faith that you will have a cracker of a dog on your hands. Just dont train to hard and beat us in years to come! Once you tackle to boredom issue I think you will find life will change for all of you.

Have a look around the forum especially the puppy help section for some great ideas and then in the community section you can see some video links for Danni in SA with her Koolies doing Agility ( and some fantastic obedience footage as well). Danni has left for WA for the Agility Nationals with her Koolies and is representing SA in the team challenge which she has done multiple years in a row. There are also some great Koolies in QLD who have helped their owners become part of the Australian Team leaving to go to England in a few weeks (fingers crossed that the weather clears up by then) to name a few more. All in all, if you need help - this is the place to be.

Ill up load some photos of Bug and Echo that I took on my phone. He is very cute and very sweet and is in the perfect home. Good job Koolie rescue people that were involved.

I can totally empathise because I got Perry when she was 13 months old and she decided that since she had spent her puppyhood chained to a log on a farm she was going to be a puppy now. She chewed everything in sight - all the furniture bears her signature - my poor coffee table had only been in the house a week before she signed it - even the skirting board on the wall. I quickly decided that a tired dog was a good dog and she has improved out of sight since I started keeping her busy. I think her piece de resistance was one day when I was out at work - she was trying to get a box of dog biscuits off the counter above her water bowl but instead knocked down a 50 pack of tea bags which all got wet. She spread them out over the new blue carpet to dry, decided they were not drying quickly enough, so she chewed each one and spread the tea out, then she took a big box of tissues off the signed coffee table, and carefully shredded one on top of each pool of tea leaves. When she decided that was not working well she went and got a toilet roll and shredded that. When I came home she obviously had decided that this had all been a bad idea and was convinced that she would be beaten - I did not know whether to laugh or cry when I saw the mess so we went out for a walk and then I put her in the garden with a bone while I cleaned it up. Make sure they always have something to chew and I never leave home without giving her a job to do - I am going out for a couple of hours now and I am going to tell her to guard the house until I get back and she will - anyone with the temerity to even walk down the street will be left in no doubt that there is a big brave watchdog in my house.

You should bring Echo to sheepdog school down in Binalong near Yass - a chance to meet some other koolies and have a lot of fun. You would meet some other obedience dogs too.

Send me your email and I will put you on the list - ailsat@netspeed.com.au

Welcome to the forum Matt & Echo!! Look forward to seeing some pics of your Echo. He sounds like he's kept life interesting for you and well done for not giving up on him when he did make life difficult.

That's a great story too Scouserdog!!!

Paxy and I have just started agility training too!!

welcome to the forum Matt!!

It is full of good stuff that you will enjoy and find helpful.

Cant wait to see some pics of Echo :-)

Some photos of Bug and Echo. No need to say which one is which. They were taken on my iphone and not ovelry good quality but hey - they are photos all the same.









Love that story Scouserdog. I think after such a day of deep thought by her you would have to laugh as it really in ingenious of her.

what 2 such well behaved pups :) both with the beautiful Large koolie ears :) (raz has them too, i love his ears)

That is an adorable story, I often wonder if raz would think things through in such great detail as that :/

Perry is still here so obviously she was forgiven - I still think it was a very clever thing to do but koolies are no slouches in the brains department.

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragment - and we are very keen to get involved in the herding schools as well as Agility. Also thanks for posting those pics Natalie - not something that I have been able to find time for in the last few days.

Echo is continuing to improve. With a frozen beef briscut each morning and plenty of marrow bones around we have been 'chew free' for 2 days now... and that is a big accomplishment. Our next problem is making sure that our other two dogs don't become pigs or start packing on the weight. Something that I have noticed about Echo is that while he is very food driven, when it comes to the evening meal he is very easily distracted and often leaves much of it uneaten. Five minutes later he will jump all over the place and do what ever it takes to get the smallest treat. Does anyone have any ideas on this one? It would be a big help if we could get him to keep pace with our other dogs at feeding time. I am thinking that we need to make the meal a reward, but don't know how to do it - especially with the other dogs.

Thanks again.

Matt

Frazzle is a disaster at feed time, unless I sit with him while he eats, he leaves his tea and follows me on my rounds, I have not as yet been able to solve this except put him in a crate to feed him and then he will most times stop eating until I come back into sight.

Perry won't eat unless I am there. If I go out and leave her something to chew until I return it is still there when I get back. I put it down to her going hungry in her first year on the farm and never knowing when she will get food again - she knows I won't let her go hungry so my being there is reassurance that there will be more food.

I also have to stay with Ceejay when she is eating otherwise she follows me. She used to be a grazer, wondered off and back. But Jody my old labrador rescue solved that problem. Ceejay is different with treats as well, very attentive. You may just have to stick around and encourage her to eat. And welcome to the best forum in Australia (just a tad biased there).

raz is the same, if i leave the room he will follow me out of it, but once he knows where im gonna stay he will wander back to finish

Then it sounds like Echo is typical of many - alot like our old Corgi/Red Cattle cross Nudge was at feeding time.

The weekend just past I took him out to my mates farm near Ganmain, NW of Wagga here in NSW. Echo spent most of the time off leash for the first time, meet his fist cat, barked at his first horse, herded his first sheep, played with his first five year old boy with a football, had his first ride in a trailer, jumped out of a trailer at about 35km/h for the first time, followed his first tractor around a 120ac paddock several times, got bowled over by a cranky ewe for the first time, tried to jump a yard gate for the first time - then though better of it and waited to be lifted over... it was a big weekend for all of us and Echo slept all the way home in the back of the car.

As for the herding, the mob we were moving was about 100 young ewes that we were bringing in to seperate the rams from. They were pretty flighty and quick to run so we didn't try to put Echo around them in the paddock. Once they were in the yard I got him inside the gate with me. It took about 60 seconds for him to realise that he was allowed to chase these things and after my mates two dogs showed him the way he was off! His behaviour was good and he pushes them well. He still needs to learn not to cross in front and he started to get the hang of taking directions around the mob. I was very pleased that he was pretty easy to call off them and he seemed to have good instincts with the breakaways. Also he got hit pretty hard by one ewe as she tried to break out, but he was back up and straight after her so he showed good courage too. The next day I took him down to feed a mob of big lambs that they are just finishing off with some grain. He made once to chase after them, but a single call had him back at my side and ignoring them.

I have some photos that my mates wife took which I will post if someone can tell me how. I think we will all be heading back there for the Ganmain Show in August, which is supposed to have a big dog component.

Its a real buzz when they just "know" what to do!

Congratulations Matt it sounds like you have the makings of a real stock dog. Half the battle is getting them to listen to you and working something as valuable as young ewes it is important that they will only work them enough to get them where you want and not chase and terrorise for their own fun. Isn't it great when they sleep all the way home? Imagine the dreams. Well done.

Sounds like you and Echo had a ball. Perfect dog weekend with a many firsts. It is a real rush when you know that you have a working dog (I am in rural suburbia) that actually works. lol.

Welcome to the forum. The title is true here too, "One of the friendliest places on the Net"

Lots of people for information, hints and different experiences. And not forgetting all the wonderful Koolies that are the reason for us being here.




All the better to hear you with, Mum. Then ignore you with and look at you with those gorgeous eyes. "You say sumthin, Ma"

I am with you dandy. Bugs ears are SO big that apparently my words get lost in them. Especially "here, come, now, bugger to name a few".

exactly!!! its annoying cause he does have a good recall...but when he doesnt want to come he wont... :/

I seem to frequently get comments about the size of Paxy's ears! I don't notice them now and I quite like them the way they are!:ThumbUP: Mind you it's quite possible there's an echo in there and that's why she doesn't always hear me!

Then it would seem then that our 'Echo' is extremely well named. My comands disappear to somewhere between my mouth and his brain and getting lost in those ears would explain it! It could also be related to the way that the thoughts bounce around in his head!

Last Thursday night we went to our first agility class with the good people of Agility NSW at Castle Hill in Western Sydney. I think it will take us a few weeks to settle down in the new environment, especially since it is definitly higher energy than obedience class. I think he will do OK but this is the first time I have done anything like this and it will be a steep learning curve for both of us. We have a list of 'homework' training exercises, but I find it difficult with our other two dogs in the back yard as they are such a distraction.

On a lighter note I spent some time on the weekend working on a little caravan that Andy and I have just bought and Echo has decided that it is a wonderful new kennel! Anytime I was working around the van he would curl up on one of the beds, but then when I walked out to get something from the shed he would follow. I think he ended up getting tired of this ritual and eventually retired to one of the dog beds with a marrow bone to chew where he could watch me.

Meanwhile the jumping and nipping continue to improve, although the almost obsesive licking is still much the same. Also we are having difficulty calming him down when we first come out the door of a morning or in the afternoon when we come home from work. Does anyone have any good suggestions for this one?

all i can suggest in regards to when you first get home or when he first sees you in the morning is to ignore him for 10 mins...we used to do that with raz when he was a baby and i can get home, he wiggles and wags but if i dont fuss him he doesnt care. by ignoring the dog you teach them that high excitement gets them no where and that by acting calm they get rewarded with pats. Also if you dont go out first thing while the pup is acting crazy, wait for him to be sitting calmly/quietly by the back door then you can exit, and only pat when the pup is calm. Doing this can help with separation anxiety. If the dog goes crazy with excitement when you get home they are gonna learn that you getting home is the best thing in the world and that anything else is no good. thats when some dogs get separation anxiety as they just cant wait for you to get home. Like stress isnt good for our health stress is also not good for puppy health. Just my big 2 cents worth :)

on another note i absolutly love raz's ears they are big but i also hardly notice them but i couldnt imagine him with anything else now as he is perfect how he is to me

Perry was an obsessive licker too but she has gradually grown out of it and now she is 7 she rarely does it at all.

She has big ears too but because they are soft (semi pricked) they rarely stand straight up. I love the fact that they are so expressive - either soft and right down and relaxed, semi pricked - she is listening but choosing what to hear, up with the tips just turned over - definitely listening, turned right back and almost inside out - absolutely listening because there is something going on. I love the way they fly back when she is running as well.

Expressive certainly is the word!

We had another indication as to Echos past life on Sunday. I walked out the backdoor to clean off my running shoes and Echo did his usual 'wants to jump - no I can't do that - so wag tail until bum is about to fall off and lick any exposed fleash within reach' trick which I just ignored by turning my back to him. I then moved away to clean off my shoes by smacking them together - as you do - and then turned around to find Echo totally freaked out and cowering in the corner absolutely terrified. When this sort of thing happens with any of our dogs (thunderstorms etc) we take a "Hey - get over it" approach. I put the shoes down and called him over and he crawled to me, then rolled over and grovelled. I moved and called him to heal to get him back on his feet and made sure he was calm before patting and making sure his tail was back to where it should be. I then called him back to the door where I had dropped the shoes and he was fine until I bent to pick one of them up when he went straight back to cowering, although not as bad.

We have never left any shoes outside since Echo came to live with us and he has never touched any that I have seen - so he has never been disiplined by us for chewing shoes. Given his chewing habits when he came to us I can only think that his previous owners had this problem and Echos reaction to this situation is a pretty good indicator as to what happened to him when he did this.

I understand that it is very easy to 'loose it' with a misbehaving dog and I am ashamed to say that I have been guilty of this myself more than once in the past, but to get such a strong reaction from a dog after so long indicates to me that it wasn't just a few isolated incidences. I sincerely hope to one day meet the previous owners of my little mate and the people that sold him to them - I think a lesson in manners might be well deserved.

I would like to beat up the man Perry was rescued from too. Koolies are so willing to please you I cannot understand why anyone would want to hurt one.

I just love your byline Matt! I laugh every time I see it. :-)

Thanks Penny. I can't remember where I got it from, but it appeals to my warped sense of humour! Watch this space - I have others that I might change to on occasion.

This is one section of the site that I have only just 'found' and I must say that after reading your journey with Echo I want to cry. For months now I have been battling the demons in the back of my head that are telling me that maybe alot of Dodger's issues are coming from me. I now recognise that our wonderful 2nd hand Koolies come with a full set of luggage and I will continue to unpack each suitcase one by one.

Thank you for your honesty Mat, it has made my day and my journey just that little bit easier.

Cindy

Thank you Cindy and I am pleased to say that the boy has continued to improve. He still jumps a bit, although no where near as much if the other, larger dogs aren't around, and the licking is definitely still there, but the nipping has all but gone now. The chewing has also virtually disappeared (you wait, now that I've said that...) and Echo is going very well in agility and gets big wraps from the instructors, although they are less complementary about my abilities and our at home training schedule - which doesn't exist.

I know you have meet Echo at Bobbara and I am glad we have been able to help in any small way. Just remember who is the boss (Hint: it's you, not the dog) and you will be fine.