spice has always been submisive from the time i got her. she has a very bad licking problem she licks people other dogs the cat and our parrots or anything thats moves trying to get acepted ? there has been only one dog that she does not do this to and that is aussie he is a lagotto and thinks that the whole world is a big play thing just for him and runs around all day playing flat out spice loves him and plays with him with out the licking going on but we only see aussie twice a week. her new problem is now she is scared. on monday night at gympie training i had spice tied up while i was working another dog and a rude lady walked through with her dog were i had spice tied and her dog attacked spice twice before this lady slowly wondered away with out even looking at what was going on. then on tuesday night at agaility training in maryborough spice who comes with me to watch while i work my other dogs (normale quitely)started barking at people and their dogs and acting scared of them not spice at all. on wedendays at home she started barking again when started crying and yelping and shakeing all over and was hiding at the top of the stairs. all because a dog barked across the road from the back of a ute. any ideas to help spice get over both of these problem would be great thank u
royalla

Royalla - We are so sorry that you and Spice are having a bit of trouble. I am by no means an expert in this kind of behavior. But my neighbor does have a dog that behaves similarly. Here are a few suggestions that might help.

The Use of the Desensitization Technique:
Begin by exposing Spice to a very low level or small amount of whatever it is that's causing his fear. I assume in this case it is other dogs barking. Start with Spice being around another dog that is barking but is at a distance of 100 feet or so from her.

Reward Spice for calm, non-fearful behavior in the presence of the other barking dog. Gradually move the barking dog to sit closer to Spice. As long as Spice remains relaxed, reward her with treats and praise. If at any point she becomes anxious, moves the dog further away and proceeds at a slower pace.

When Spice can remain relaxed in the presence of a sitting barking dog at a closer distance, move the dog 100 feet away again, but have someone walk it slowly by her. Again, gradually increase the proximity of the dog, rewarding Spice for remaining calm and relaxed. Repeat this procedure as many times as necessary, gradually increasing the speed of the dog so that it appears to be a more aggressive situation.

This process may take several days, weeks, or even months. You must precede at a slow enough paces that Spice never becomes fearful during the desensitization process. If you move too quickly you won't be successful.

Another technique that you may want to try is the Counter Conditioning Technique:
Counter conditioning works best when used in conjunction with desensitization and involves pairing the fear stimulus.

Using the desensitization technique described previously, while Spice is exposed to the other dog, ask her to perform some obedience exercises, such as "sit" and "down." Reward her for obeying and continue to have her obey commands as the dog is moved closer to her.

What Not to Do
Do not punish your dog for being afraid. Punishment will only make her more fearful.

Do not try to force your dog to experience the object or situation that is causing her to be afraid. For example, if he is afraid of bicycles and you force him to stand in place while bicycles whiz by, he'll probably become more fearful of bicycles rather than less fearful.

Never punish your dog after the fact for destruction or house soiling caused by anxiety or fear. Animals don't understand punishment after the fact, even if it's only seconds later. This kind of destruction or house soiling is the result of panic, not misbehavior. Punishment will do more harm than good.

I hope some of this helps... these are something’s that we have done with my neighbors dog....the Dog Whisperer uses some of these techniques.

Keep us posted on Spice we will be thinking about you both.

Karolina Koolies

Hi Royalla

You must first give some information on this dog, how old is it and what other dogs is it kept with etc.

If a pup is put in a yard with older dogs only 1 dog normally dominates in that yard and all other dogs play second fiddle.
If you have this dog with other dogs it may be an idea to segregate the dog do that it can develop it's own dominance instincts.
It may be the makeup of the dog however and may not be a problem as such but a trait in the dog.

We would need more information.

I have the opposite problem, I have a bunch of 8 week old pup's at the moment and when I let them out of their pen in the morning I can take half an hour to get back to the house some 50 metres as these pups have so much instinct that they try to block me and make my progress very slow.

Hope this helps a little,

Jack Wilja Koolies

Great advice guys, that should get Spice on the road to recovery.

Hey royalla good on you for seeking help here, you won't regret it.

To add my own two cents.
My girl Mayi has the same licking problem, brought on by Jacks great description of being in a yard of dominant dogs, she was unable to assert herself being so small, but once she was separated, her own dominance became apparent, now when she goes out to play, she is the one dominating the pack and strutting herself.
Her licking which at times was so excessive, that she would salivate all over herself, especially when she became overly excited, has reduced, as she continues to find her place and her own confidence she is improving all the time.

Showing her sheep was a real turning point for her, now she is learning her job and she has something positive and productive to throw all her energy into and she is becoming a much calmer and steadier girl, she even works cows and shows no fear only drive, I have even seen her demonstrate force on a mob of cows who got overly curios of this little thing, and they listened to her, I was so proud I nearly busted, but it is so funning to see her work.

Regarding the fear incident, because Spice lacks confidence, she has tried to show everyone, dog and person alike that she is no threat, that she is submissive, pups do it to their mum all the time, until mum puts them straight and grumps at them.
This was probably what happened when she was attacked, in his face.
Karolina is right on with her advice, you need to take it slow.

My best suggestion and only going on what I have seen with my own girl.
Join a herding group, get Spice doing something where she is in charge, and the only one in the yard, no other dogs, like agility or Obedience.
Let her find her feet and build her confidence.
When your at the other clubs, leave Spice at home unless your going to able to be with her, or leave her in her crate with the cover down, so she won't be harassed or be able to harass others.
Give her space, time and work on her confidence.

Once you have her where you know she getting on top of her problem, then start to reintroduce her to socializing, again building on her new confidence, supporter her, train her around where other dogs are, but can't get at her, like a ring or yard.
With love, patience and time you will help her be the Koolie she was always meant to be.
I look forward to hearing of your progress.

Hi Royalla

Just another thought

I often when I bring a pup home place it with my other dogs only to find that the pup takes more notice of the other dogs than of me. This can lead to some problems when I start training such a dog so I often tie a short lead to my belt and take the dog with me whenever I'm outside which is most days and just let the dog follow you and observe.
Don't pay to much attention to the dog but occasionally praise the dog, you should do this for at least 3 days or until you notice that when near the other dogs the dog pays more attention to you than the other dogs.
This is also a good cure for dogs that constantly jump all over you. After several days of the dog being attached to you he or she gets quite tired of jumping and eventually settles down, the second day will be a bit better and so on.


Jack Wilja Koolies

Hi Again

Royalla Just another thought

When you have the dog with you try to put yourself in a situation that you need to chastise something and after doing this praise her and her confidence should start to improve. If you have access to some sort of stock try herding the stock be it sheep cattle or chickens for that matter wuth the dog attached to you this should turn her natural instincts on.
If you have access to sheep and your dog won't have a go at a sheep grab a sheep by the head and shake it from side to side while encouraging your dog to come and assist this usually does the trick

Jack Wilja Koolies

Some real handy information karolinakoolie......agree with your thoughts totally.
In re to licking, my male does it also & it drives me crazy!
Also the fact that he is happy & eager to run to anyone jump on them & try licking them too is frustrating to say the least.
Prior to me owning him I'm not sure if he was dominated by other dogs etc, etc....but, since I've owned him the one thing he doesnt lack is getting attention from me. And in re to being dominated by my other dogs.....far from it, he has them bluffed & is half there size!! lol.
Is it a koolie trait?????